Worst Culprits of Trail Count Manipulation

MadMadWorld · Feb 20, 2013

It is a huge pet peeve of mine.

Worst:
Smugglers Notch. If Freefall is open from the Upper FIS cutover, it's not open. It's like 100 yards of intermediate bumps.

Stowe. They cut so many trails across the Front Four that they can have just a small section available and call the trail open.

Sugarbush. Not as much of a beef but still makes the list. I appreciate their lax policy on opening/closing trails but I don't think a mountain should list a as open if you have to hike to get to it. That's my only beef.

Best: Magic. Will state that a trail is accessible from a cutover but not list it as open on the snow report. I think this is the best thing to do.

ScottySkis · Feb 20, 2013

Everyone in the East pretty much does this.

ss20 · Feb 20, 2013

Jimminy Peak. It takes 5 "trails" to get down the easiest way. They also have Upper and Lower Whitetail. They both have the same difficulty, same path, and have the same character. Their trail count should be about 35, not 45.

Puck it · Feb 20, 2013

If you can get there from aother trail then that is how they justify it.

drjeff · Feb 20, 2013

My "favorite" example had to be Stowe a number of years ago when overnight they went from 46 or 48 trails to about 110 or so without ever cutting a single tree- there explanation was that they felt they were loosing out to potential customers looking at much higher total trail counts of their competitors

On the flipside, Mount Snow a few years ago DECREASED their total trail count from about 110 down to their current 80 be eliminating a number of "upper" and "lower" modifiers and just calling the trail by its name- a step in the right direction IMHO (not perfect, but a positive step none the less)

MadMadWorld · Feb 20, 2013

My point was more about snow reports. But yea, Stowe had to have been the worst.

riverc0il · Feb 20, 2013

Stowe for the worst, for sure. It really adds insult to injury when they had their big campaign about skiing at 48 or whatever of their classic trails, getting a pin or some such award for doing so. They were really hyping and promoting the very fact that they didn't count connectors and they weren't going for marketing by trail count. And then they turned around 180* and went the exact opposite direction with an absurd amount of trails, far worse than typical of even the worst trail inflation counts.

Cannon is starting to get obnoxious. Zoomalanche, Skateway, Stinky Street, Snowmakers, etc.

MRG is good about this. And Jay, is actually quite good about not bumping trail counts. One great example is Northway and Ullr's... both are very long trails that could have easily been broken up into segments. IIR Powerline and Liftline do not get the Upper/Lower treatment. Though they do have L'Mont Entripe or whatever which I always call Lower Haynes and The Willard which is really Lower Derrick. So you win some, you loose some at Jay but at least those trails were not late breaking trail count bump additions.

deadheadskier · Feb 20, 2013

I know some of the marketing staff at Stowe. They honestly didn't want to bump trail count like they did but had little choice. They were losing affluent British tour groups to the limes of Killington and Sunday river. They went over board for sure but I can understand why they abandoned the great 48 marketing campaign and trail count

BenedictGomez · Feb 20, 2013

The Poconos.

***Drops Mic***

[/End thread]

riverc0il · Feb 20, 2013

deadheadskier said:
I know some of the marketing staff at Stowe. They honestly didn't want to bump trail count like they did but had little choice. They were losing affluent British tour groups to the limes of Killington and Sunday river. They went over board for sure but I can understand why they abandoned the great 48 marketing campaign and trail count

No doubt. This thread isn't about which resort had the most legit reason but simply which is the worst offender.

BenedictGomez · Feb 20, 2013

riverc0il said:
This thread isn't about which resort had the most legit reason but simply which is the worst offender.

I've never been there, but I submit - Sno Mountain, and its' "25 Trails".

Like I said, never been, but I just recall this map from memory as seeming particularly absurd. Bonus points for their Facebook post the other day regarding a 26th trail they'll be cutting, which from the discussion doesnt appear as though it will be more than 200 feet.

deadheadskier · Feb 21, 2013

riverc0il said:
No doubt. This thread isn't about which resort had the most legit reason but simply which is the worst offender.

Sorry. Missed the thread guidelines. :lol:

MadMadWorld · Feb 21, 2013

Wachusett is tiny but it has to be up there. They add both the Polar Kids Magic Carpet as a lift and Polar Kids Playground as a trail to their count. It's so ridiculous for a few reasons....a) both the carpet and "trail" can only be used by Polar Kids and not the general public and b) the trail is literally just an area on the far edge of Hitchcock and the carpet is about 40 feet in length.

On top of that, 4 of the 8 "lifts" are less than 500 feet in length. Ridiculous

miskier1970 · Feb 21, 2013

Caberfae Peaks in Cadillac Mi claims 34 trails. Some of the runs might only be 30'-50' long. Other areas they clump 3 trails in one big open area.

MadMadWorld · Feb 21, 2013

miskier1970 said:
View attachment 7803
Caberfae Peaks in Cadillac Mi claims 34 trails. Some of the runs might only be 30'-50' long. Other areas they clump 3 trails in one big open area.

Wow that cluster f of beginner trails is ridiculous!

miskier1970 · Feb 21, 2013

MadMadWorld said:
Wow that cluster f of beginner trails is ridiculous!

Here is an aerial shot. Yes it is a cluster f in the beginner area

kcyanks1 · Feb 21, 2013

I actually think Stowe's upper/lower distinctions are very helpful. I don't care about the total number. But from their snow report, you can figure out exactly what is open. You don't have to have Goat marked open only to learn that the top is closed. The report tells you, because "Upper Goat" will be marked closed. They even go further and use partial opening designations. So if Upper Liftline is marked as partially open, you know that the actual fun part of Liftline at the way top is closed. Perhaps they could have kept 48 trails and still split up the open/closed report this way, but I think that would be confusing. Then if part of a trail is open they say it's open, so they can have all 48 "open" yet large portions of the mountain closed. The way they do it now works very well, in my view.

MadMadWorld · Feb 21, 2013

kcyanks1 said:
I actually think Stowe's upper/lower distinctions are very helpful. I don't care about the total number. But from their snow report, you can figure out exactly what is open. You don't have to have Goat marked open only to learn that the top is closed. The report tells you, because "Upper Goat" will be marked closed. They even go further and use partial opening designations. So if Upper Liftline is marked as partially open, you know that the actual fun part of Liftline at the way top is closed. Perhaps they could have kept 48 trails and still split up the open/closed report this way, but I think that would be confusing. Then if part of a trail is open they say it's open, so they can have all 48 "open" yet large portions of the mountain closed. The way they do it now works very well, in my view.

That is the other side of the argument but most mountains will just note on the snow report that "so and so is open from trail A cutover". I find that a lot more refreshing then take one continuous trail and cutting it into three sections. On their trail report they already specify how much of each section is open. Why can't they do it the same way? Especially considering everyone gets trail reports from the site or an app instead of a snow phone nowadays

MadMadWorld · Feb 21, 2013

miskier1970 said:
View attachment 7806

Here is an aerial shot. Yes it is a cluster f in the beginner area

I love it! This brings up a whole different discussion. Trail map manipulation. It looks nothing like that little bump of a hill

BenedictGomez · Feb 21, 2013

MadMadWorld said:
Wow that cluster f of beginner trails is ridiculous!

That's hysterical, probably only 10 or 12 trails. That's even worse than my Sno Mountain example. We may have a winner.

MadMadWorld said:
I love it! This brings up a whole different discussion. Trail map manipulation. It looks nothing like that little bump of a hill

Right, the trail map makes it look short and steep.

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