marcski
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Some professional ski instructors may be athletes. (Even though they are not being paid to compete). But either way, they are definitely not "professional athletes."
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Instructors= professional athletes?
- Thread starter legalskier
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Riverskier
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Those paid to perform a sport are professional athletes, not those paid to teach/coach a sport. Therefore, instructors definitely are not professional athletes.
legalskier
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Agreed.
If you ask people to describe a "professional athlete," the great majority would reference a well paid participant in a competitive sport: Tom Brady, Lebron James, Mariano Rivera, Sidney Crosby, Lyndsey Vonn, etc.
Ski instructors can be very athletic- some are even former competitors like Killy- but that still doesn't change this essential equation: Instructor + Sport = "Coach"
mister moose
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Looks like you might want to expand your definition of professional athletes:
Not only did the government approve professional poker player as an occupation and define it, but listed it as part of the Professional Athletes category. In the original 2+2 post Michael asked the question "What do Kobe Bryant and Doyle Brunson have in common?" The answer is obvious now; they're both professional athletes under their government issued occupational definitions.
http://www.pokerspace.com/lounge/ne...deems-poker-players-as-professional-athletes/
I do see your point. A third base coach does not run the bases or hit the ball. He is paid to coach only. A good 3rd base coach could even be in a cast, but still be an effective coach. But a ski instructor is not paid to watch someone ski by and coach the drive by with a megaphone. He could not do his job in a cast. The ski instructor is paid to perform and demonstrate the sport to the audience of the class. He is most certainly being paid for his athleticism. However, the ski instructor does not compete with others for pay, and does not have sponsorships, or appear on TV. I just don't see this as the only criteria. Much of ski teaching is by doing. The instructor must both perform and teach.
Is a lifeguard a professional athlete? Is he being paid for his swimming ability, and to swim when needed? Is a stuntman a professional athlete? Is a boxing sparring partner a professional athlete?
abc
Well-known member
I don't know enough about the professional athlet status as it applies to immigration so I can't intelligently comment on whether ski instructors should or shouldn't be counted as such. But one fact is clear, there're not enough good ski instructors without the Ozzi's and New Zealanders.
You can look at it either way. For every $50 we pay for our lessons, the instructor actually got maybe $5 of it! So, anyone who already got a "real job" wouldn't want to teach skiing full time, no matter how good he/she is at teaching skiing. To make up the short fall of decent instructors, ski resorts need to bring in instrutor's from other country. In effect, by allowing them in, it effectively depress the wage level of local instructors.
But you can also look at it another way. If the mountain doesn't get the profit from ski schools, they'll have to either raise the ski school price, the lift ticket price, or some other way to raise money. It's a bit like the Chinese made toys. You want them at as low a price? It's "made" overseas, at the expense of the job of the locals!
But we've already voted with our wallet. So not allowing more forigne instructors in would only lower the standard of instructors. We definitely don't want that, right? So stop debating whether they are or are not professional whatever. We need them. End of story.
You can look at it either way. For every $50 we pay for our lessons, the instructor actually got maybe $5 of it! So, anyone who already got a "real job" wouldn't want to teach skiing full time, no matter how good he/she is at teaching skiing. To make up the short fall of decent instructors, ski resorts need to bring in instrutor's from other country. In effect, by allowing them in, it effectively depress the wage level of local instructors.
But you can also look at it another way. If the mountain doesn't get the profit from ski schools, they'll have to either raise the ski school price, the lift ticket price, or some other way to raise money. It's a bit like the Chinese made toys. You want them at as low a price? It's "made" overseas, at the expense of the job of the locals!
But we've already voted with our wallet. So not allowing more forigne instructors in would only lower the standard of instructors. We definitely don't want that, right? So stop debating whether they are or are not professional whatever. We need them. End of story.
"Much of ski teaching is by doing. The instructor must both perform and teach."
This is very true. And some instructors do talk more than they should. The sport is mastered through the doing of it.
I guess that view could make it fit the rule.
This is very true. And some instructors do talk more than they should. The sport is mastered through the doing of it.
I guess that view could make it fit the rule.
gmcunni
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According to 8 USCS § 1182 (Title 8, Aliens and Nationality; Chapter 12, Immigration and Nationality Immigration; Admission Qualifications For Aliens; Travel Control of Citizens and Aliens), the term "professional athlete" means “an individual who is employed as an athlete by--
(aa) a team that is a member of an association of 6 or more professional sports teams whose total combined revenues exceed $ 10,000,000 per year, if the association governs the conduct of its members and regulates the contests and exhibitions in which its member teams regularly engage; or
(bb) any minor league team that is affiliated with such an association.”
(aa) a team that is a member of an association of 6 or more professional sports teams whose total combined revenues exceed $ 10,000,000 per year, if the association governs the conduct of its members and regulates the contests and exhibitions in which its member teams regularly engage; or
(bb) any minor league team that is affiliated with such an association.”
drjeff
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So then for larger ski areas, based on that definition, the team (the ski area that employs the instructor) is a member of an association of 6 or more other teams (either that state ski association or the National Ski Area Association), and for larger (and even medium sized in somes cases) resorts they do have revenues over 10 million annually, and the association does set forth industry standards of operations.
Based on that definition, with a little loose interpretation, ski instructors are professional athlete's
mister moose
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I saw that entry high up on google search returns too. Good job. You posted that without full knowledge or concern for the context.
USGS Title 8 section 1182 said:
So what we have here is an imigration policy that offers certain preferred treatment to certain enumerated professions. Your definition of a professional athlete is an arbitrary US immigration special case exemption that chooses to fastlane sports teams with 6 or more teams in a league whose revenues exceed 10 million dollars. The language defines professional athlete solely "for the purposes of this section".
Looks like zero skiers are professional athletes by your example. You can also leave out professional golfers, runners, skaters.... that's going to be a very long list.
legalskier
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Based on that definition, with a little loose interpretation, ski instructors are professional athlete's
So....when will the Mt Snow Instructors Team be competing against the Stratton Instructors Team? :wink:
Meanwhile, across the pond, France is busy arresting a British instructor who doesn't have a French certification:
Skiers protest as French police seize British instructor in 'piste wars'
"A British ski instructor has been arrested in an escalation of the so-called “piste wars” with French authorities.
Alex Casey, 40, was thrown into a cell after being accused of giving lessons without a licence in the Alpine resort of Megève.
He has worked in the resort for more than a decade, but is now officially banned from doing so because he lacks a specific qualification demanded by the French. Ski professionals from the UK believe the French are trying to drive them off the slopes....
“I was led off the slopes in handcuffs — it’s pure persecution,” he said.***"
Story: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...british-instructor-in-piste-wars-8558315.html
C-Rex
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It depends on how you define a professional. I look at ski instructors the way I look at golf or tennis "pros". They are skilled at their sport and make a living teaching or coarching. If you do it full time and get paid for it, you are a professional. Not all professionals are stars or make a ton of money. In fact, most skiing and snowboarding "pros" probably make less yearly from their sport than instructors.
Hawkshot99
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In the Birkshires we do have a Instructor race every year, between all the local mtns.
marcski
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In the Birkshires we do have a Instructor race every year, between all the local mtns.
But that is for fun. It boils down to this: ski instructors get paid to teach...not to compete and win.
marcski
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I think it depends more on how you define an athlete. IMHO, since ski instructors get paid, they are clearly professionals. The bigger question is: what makes one an athlete?
bigbog
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+1
Although I might not say they aren't Professional Athletes. Part of their means of teaching comes from their ability to demonstrate the skills.....
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