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Instructors= professional athletes?

legalskier

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Just heard this item on the business report- the proposed immigration bill contains a section that would make it easier for Colo. resorts to hire foreign instructors.
"Instead of using a visa program for temporary, low-skilled workers, ski instructors would be eligible to come to the U.S. under the same program that professional athletes use. Current law allows those athletes to stay in the U.S. for up to a decade."
http://libertyunyielding.com/2013/0...ons-in-the-immigration-bill-almost-everybody/

So I'm wondering- is an instructor more like a professional athlete, or more like the coach of an athlete?
 

mister moose

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Considering how I see most instructors skiing, I would definitely say that they ARE NOT PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES.

I think this results from ski resorts maximizing revenue from the ski school. This is a good thing as it introduces more people to the sport. The demand for instructors coupled with the low pay makes for a smaller applicant pool and a reduced entry level criteria for instructors. Hence you see some less skilled skiers with a ski school parka on. Keep in mind you don't need to be an olympian to teach a wedge turn. The advent of lawyers on the ski slope coupled with workmans comp claims means no free skiing in a company parka. So all the superb ski instructors out free sking are invisible, not like the old days where Stein & co. skied in bright parkas all day long. So if what you are saying is "All ski instructors are not great skiers" then I agree. Some are in training. Some are part time and only teach low level classes. But the full time instructor is most definitely a professional. He/she is getting paid to do what they do as their full time job. Otherwise, are doctors just out of med school not professional? Is a first year plumber not professional? How about a rookie in a farm team league? I think you are confusing "rock star" with "professional". In any profession, there are many drones and only a few stars.
 

drjeff

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True, but are they professional athletes?

Talk to some of the full time instructors who spend 100, 150, 200+ days on snow a year, logging literally millions of vertical feet and spending days on end in their ski boots 6-8 hrs a day. Some of them may not sport the physique of a stereotypical "professional" athlete, but these folks sure put their bodies through the same wear and tear that many professional athletes do!
 

gmcunni

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Talk to some of the full time instructors who spend 100, 150, 200+ days on snow a year, logging literally millions of vertical feet and spending days on end in their ski boots 6-8 hrs a day. Some of them may not sport the physique of a stereotypical "professional" athlete, but these folks sure put their bodies through the same wear and tear that many professional athletes do!

just because someone is athletic doesn't make them a professional athlete. athletes compete, instructors teach. they may compete outside of teaching but the mere fact that they are ski instructors does not elevate them to "athlete" status.
 

mister moose

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you equate a rookie in a farm league to a ski instructor?

just because someone is athletic doesn't make them a professional athlete. athletes compete, instructors teach. they may compete outside of teaching but the mere fact that they are ski instructors does not elevate them to "athlete" status.



In a comparison of rock stars to wannabes, and the number of farm league players that become rock stars, sure.

From Webster:
Athlete: a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina
Professional: participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer>

You are still in the frame of Athlete = Rock Star. If that's your working definition, you obviously end up with a different opinion.
 

hammer

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Pushing the political bounds perhaps...but any effort to bring in low-wage workers from outside the US when we have lots of people in this country that are out of work and could use the experience just doesn't set right with me.

In response to the original question, do we call all coaches and instructors professional athletes? No...and this case is no different.
 

gmcunni

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From Webster:
Athlete: a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina
Professional: participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer>

also from webster:
Instructor : one that instructs : teacher; especially : a college teacher below professorial rank

instructor does not equal athlete.

they may be an athlete in addition to being an instructor but their "livelihood" is instruction of skiing, not skiing itself.
 

mister moose

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also from webster:
Instructor : one that instructs : teacher; especially : a college teacher below professorial rank
.


Not sure why you posted this. There is no collegiate ski school. There is no ski title or rank of Professor, so 'instructor' in skiing covers all levels of teaching experience and accreditation. There is no PHD in skiing. There is level III certification, or examiner, but according to you these don't qualify either?

instructor does not equal athlete.
In the case of typing instructor, or piano instructor, I'd agree with you.

they may be an athlete in addition to being an instructor but their "livelihood" is instruction of skiing, not skiing itself.

Huh. So you can teach skiing without, you know, actually skiing? It's all done in the classroom?
 
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drjeff

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Pushing the political bounds perhaps...but any effort to bring in low-wage workers from outside the US when we have lots of people in this country that are out of work and could use the experience just doesn't set right with me.

In this case though, you're looking at a certain type of worker who has a pre-existing skill set (ski instruction) that isn't necessarily a skill set that any person off the street can acquire quickly. In the case of my trips out West, I've found out 1st hand with my own kids that they're just as likely to have say an Australian or a New Zelander or a Chilean instructing them as they are an American. Heck, I even have a good friend, who is a PSIA level 3 instructor who used to teach at Mount Snow, and this past season taught at Vail/Beavercreek and just signed on to teach at Perisher resort in Australia this "summer" - she did the Australian thing since #1 she a ski addict #2 She's a DAMNDED good instructor and #3 many of her Australian co-workers at Vail/Beavercreek encouraged her to do what they do, which is basically seek out "year round winter"

In response to the original question, do we call all coaches and instructors professional athletes? No...and this case is no different.


But they are members of the PROFESSIONAL Ski Instructors of America. Just like the local instructor at a golf course is more than likely to be a member of the PROFESSIONAL golfers of America, etc. Using Mr. Moose's term, are they "rock stars" like you'd see on TV, nope. But are they PROFESSIONALS in that they get paid to teach their sport, yup
 
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