dlague
Active member
In light of other threads related to collisions - this one is a relevant story and adds another scenario! An out of control "winter recreational person" runs into a kid!
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Jay Peak Lawsuit
- Thread starter Huck_It_Baby
- Start date
funny, I thought there was something fishy about their claim that he had recently been fired but they hadnt bothered to revoke his rfid pass.
powderdaypatriot
New member
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2013
- Messages
- 7
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The ski-resort should deactivated the pass...sad to see
mbedle
Well-known member
http://www.7dvt.com/2013slippery-slopes-who-pays-when-skiers-get-hurt-vermont
Interesting take on the whole thing.
Interesting take on the whole thing.
fbrissette
Well-known member
mbedle
Well-known member
I find it hard to believe that a resort like Jay Peak would not have a dedicted beginner/novice area segregated from the rest of mountain where people can learn to ski without the risk that some moron will be straightlining a runout to avoid skating back to a lift. It is unconscionable that Jay Peak would permit its instructors to give lessons to beginners (especially children) under such circumstances. I hope the child's family ends up owning the resort.
fbrissette
Well-known member
It is my understanding that the girl was indeed hit in a low speed zone where they take all beginners once they graduate from the magic carpet. The low speed zone is just below a steeper slope where it is possible to reach high speed. There is an unloading zone (lower mountain quad) and only an idiot would try to go across at high speed.
The guy was a moron, although Highway Star will probably argue that the little girl did not obey rules no 3 and 4 of the code of conduct.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
I disagree. The "novice area" is one of the most dangerous places at the resort.
You can run a mountain efficiently, but you cant efficiently control morons.
fbrissette
Well-known member
We certainly agree on that part.
This is exactly correct and the notion of 'owning the resort' provides a nice corollary to the cost of lift tickets (in case there was a wonder). I would suggest swallowing more than a teaspoon of data, Dome, before offering those sorts of hopeful forecasts.
If you could point me to any data showing that it is safer to teach people to ski on a green trail that is used by advanced skiers to access lifts rather than a separate beginners area that does not see any traffic from advanced skiers, I'd love to see it. If you can show me that a sign designating a portion of a runout as a "slow skiing zone" is just as effective at reducing collisions between beginners taking lessons from area employees and advanced skiers rushing to lifts, I'd love to see that as well. If you think the only way to provide a safe skiing experience to your customers is by raising ticket prices, well, good luck to you.
steamboat1
New member
from_the_NEK
Active member
With that reasoning, ski resorts should all stop giving lessons. It doesn't matter if no one new can learn how to ski. :roll:
Sure, if they don't want to assume the costs of provide a safe learning environment to novices. If, on the other hand, they think it in their economic interest to provide lessons to novices to rejuvenate their customer base, then they ought to give some consideration to how to provide those services safely. In Jay Peak's case, that might involve moving their learning area to the base of the G lift, rather than a heavily trafficked area at the base of three lifts and a terrain park. What irritates me is the cavalier attitude of ski areas and their representatives that because skiing is an inherently dangerous activity, a ski area cannot be responsible for death or injury unless its a result of negligent infrastructure. If I am a new skier paying a resort to teach me to ski (or trusting a resort to teach my child to ski), I want to be sure that they are taking whatever steps are necessary to provide a safe learning environment.
dlague
Active member
First, and foremost, Jay Peak is not the only resort to not have a specific lift served beginner only section. Although there are efforts with the magic carpets on Tram and Stateside. They do have the magic carpet area on the Tram side that is isolated which is where the child started from! Interstate is a green trail as are most run outs at every resort and beginners swarm these areas and... and low an behold intermediates advanced and expert skiers go through there too! Very few resorts are set up differently! At every resort, once a beginner is able to advance to next steps they often leave the beginner area. Nothing stops anyone from going to any part of a mountain. So I guess if the moron that was hauling ass would have hit a more experienced child then it would be OK? Or... if that child would have been with a parent rather than a ski instructor that would have been OK? I do not think that is what you are saying. Have you not seen instructors with children on various runs throughout resorts before? We see it all the time! I am sure you have! Have you not seen a parent skiing with children on trails through out a resort? I am sure you have! The moron hauling ass is the one who bears the burden! If he would have been in control then this thread would not exist!
Your wish tastes of hate for Jay Peak! And the increase in lift ticket costs? The reference from my perspective is if every lawsuit that named a resort would go against the resort while at the same time as the person who caused the incident we would end up paying higher lift ticket prices.
Some of the issues you raise are addressed in my previous response, which I assume you missed while drafting yours. I do not hate Jay Peak. I have never been there, but have heard good things about it. What bothers me is ski areas think they ought to be immune from liability in all cases where skiers collide with and injure one another. I found it distasteful that Jay Peak's reaction was to distance itself from the snowboader, upon whom it wants to place all of the blame. I think ski areas should be held to a hightened standard of care when they are providing lessons to novices, especially children. I think it is reasonable for ski areas to provide a safe learning environment for novices where they don't have to worry about being hit by morons reaching near tuna speed on green trails. I think the girl's family has a good case against Jay Peak for failing to meet that heightened standard of care. I hope they have a competent attorney who makes the case for them. I hope Jay Peak takes greater care in the future to prevent such accidents. I hope they do not try to demonize the girl's family by threatening to pass the costs of increased liability along to its customers in the form of higher lift ticket prices.
My point was that the cost of a lift ticket already absorbs the high likelihood that, in cases of injury-be they at fault or no-all roads lead to the resort-given the perception of deep pockets. As you mention, you've never been here so how in the world do you have a basis for commenting on the physical layout of the resort and how that may or may not have impacted the result? Suffice to say I won't play this out here-it will happen in the courts but you may want to at least consider that being under-informed on a matter might warrant keeping a tighter lid on your so-called convictions.
Which is why I have stated my argument in normative terms. I did not claim that relocating your learners' area to the G lift would necessarily be required to satsify the heightened duty of care that I think applies to ski areas when they assume the responsibility of teaching someone to ski. Perhaps that would require your developing a whole new learners' area. Or maybe you've done everything right and don't need to change a thing. Based on your trail map, it looks like there are better places to teach people to ski than on a runout that services three high capacity lifts. However, as you mention, that is a matter for the courts to decide. I can only assume that your attorneys will have a better argument than that your critics are somehow "under-informed."
I think it's crazy to think all resorts should have 'lessons only' areas other than the magic carpet areas that most already do. Not only would this be pretty cost prohibitive, it also doesn't teach the student who graduates from the carpet, how to navigate the real lifts, and the mountain in general. I think it's also really pie in the sky to talk about extra instructors with every group, etc…. and ultimately, another set of eyes can't stop an out of control or super fast skier or boarder from hitting some one.
And also, even if there was a lessons only area, at some point the group is going to graduate. At some level, it becomes appropriate for the lesson to move on tot he real mountain. So that certainly doesn't solve everything.
I don't think there is anything wrong at all about giving lessons where this accident took place - from what we understand. I think a kid who may or may not have been working of rate resort plowed into a kid getting a lesson on a green trail at the top of a short, primarily beginners trail.
And that sucks.
But it's hard to see how it's anybody's fault but the out of control boarder IMO.
(I think blue mountain in PA has a 'lessons only' lift that serves about 200 vert. But even that, I think anyone can ski it. But you just wouldn't want to…. and yes, that does help keep ABSOLUTE beginners off the hill, but the magic carpets at Jay seem to do the same thing.)
Anyway, it's a real shame this happened.
And also, even if there was a lessons only area, at some point the group is going to graduate. At some level, it becomes appropriate for the lesson to move on tot he real mountain. So that certainly doesn't solve everything.
I don't think there is anything wrong at all about giving lessons where this accident took place - from what we understand. I think a kid who may or may not have been working of rate resort plowed into a kid getting a lesson on a green trail at the top of a short, primarily beginners trail.
And that sucks.
But it's hard to see how it's anybody's fault but the out of control boarder IMO.
(I think blue mountain in PA has a 'lessons only' lift that serves about 200 vert. But even that, I think anyone can ski it. But you just wouldn't want to…. and yes, that does help keep ABSOLUTE beginners off the hill, but the magic carpets at Jay seem to do the same thing.)
Anyway, it's a real shame this happened.
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