Jay Peak Lawsuit - Page 7

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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by fbrissette View Post
    The reality is that group lessons for young beginners are mostly taught by teenagers with minimal training and supervision. This has been my experience in Quebec and in Jay Peak. The better qualified/experienced instructors get the better kids. The instructors with less experience (usually young) get the beginners. These instructors are usually enthusiastic, do their very best, and that is what you should expect.

    At 200$ for a typical 8-week program, if parents expect their 5 year old beginner to be supervised by a level 4 skier with the maturity and experience of a forty year old, they are delusional. You send them out to have fun and the instructors usually do a good job at that.



    Nobody is safe from idiots bombing downhill out of control. I'm sure we all had close calls before. Shit happens. Suing everyone won't make things better, especially suing the instructor who were trying their best for very little money (I'm obviously not talking about the idiot who hit the little girl). You just cannot expect a 16 year old in charge of 6 kids to fully control everyone going down a slope.

    Every time someone sues a ski resort for no good reason is a sad day.
    +1 BTW to your point - my son is a ski instructor and he is 17 and he gets the youngest beginners!
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by dlague View Post
    That is an f'd up statement - no, idiot is the the moron on the snowboard! Who would ever think to call the 5 year old an idiot!

    Someone who worked there (the snowboarding idiot) should be fully aware of the dangers in that area! People cross over to Perry Merrill all the time and as you mention - its not like Lower River Quai is narrow. However, being that it was in April it is possible that there was only one way through due to snow melt.

    Plus do we have to be in such a hurry to get a run over with - people need to take a chill pill on run outs!

    BTW I never see people make way at that location for people coming off RQ. Coming off the lift it is pretty slow going there since it is so flat that may be the most giving way that I have ever seen there!

    Technically - at any give trail merge, given time accidents will happen - resorts should ban trail merges. Ya, thats it ban trail merges!
    you asked if the instructor had control of an idiot. the repsonse was to highlight who the instructor was responsible for. I think it is pretty simple to see who is at fault between the two people involved in the collision, but a five year old is not a ski racer, or an employee, or otherwise aware of the implicit dangers of skiing, the instructor assumes those responsibilities I think, the instructor is an employee of the resort, the resort seems to have some partof the issue to me.

    like everyone else who is human, the adult at fault had probably made that run at that speed many times without incident, doesn't make it right, but it certainly is a development of complacency we are all susceptible to.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by kingdom-tele View Post
    you asked if the instructor had control of an idiot. the repsonse was to highlight who the instructor was responsible for. I think it is pretty simple to see who is at fault between the two people involved in the collision, but a five year old is not a ski racer, or an employee, or otherwise aware of the implicit dangers of skiing, the instructor assumes those responsibilities I think, the instructor is an employee of the resort, the resort seems to have some partof the issue to me.

    like everyone else who is human, the adult at fault had probably made that run at that speed many times without incident, doesn't make it right, but it certainly is a development of complacency we are all susceptible to.
    Well just like anything a parent or guardian can sign the lesson waiver and assume the risks for the child.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMadWorld View Post
    Well just like anything a parent or guardian can sign the lesson waiver and assume the risks for the child.

    I get that, which is why I there is probably no legal foundation, nor should be from what I am reading. Recognizing what is legal and what is just basic common sense above and beyond the law is more my perspective I guess, it is plain to see with regard to the out of control snowboarder, maybe not so plain with procedures the ski school utilizes.

  5. #65
    It's always terrible when a child gets hurt. But accidents do happen, sometimes even despite our best intentions. It's possible that the boarder was in control even though he was going fast (although 50 mph sounds pretty exaggerated) and the collision was a result of several variables lining up in just the right (or in this case, wrong) way. Maybe he hit an icy section of trail when he tried to stop or turn. Or maybe the instructor was doing that thing where the kids follow single file and weave back and forth across the trail, and he had nowhere else to go. There's a million different ways to look at it and a lot we will never know.

    Please, don't think I'm just taking the boarders side. I'm not. Chances are he was being reckless and will be held accountable. What bothers me is society's view that someone is always responsible and has to pay, when in fact, sometimes even when we take precautions accidents still happen. I hope the little girl recovers fully and that this incident doesn't keep her from being raised Jay.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abubob View Post
    If many areas block off terrain parks and race courses shouldn't areas where rank beginners especially children are learning be blocked off as well?
    I am not familiar with the layout of Jay Peak, but a big problem at many resorts is that the "beginner trails" are simply the run-out of other trails, or cris-crosses other trails. How do you block that off?
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  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Rex View Post
    It's always terrible when a child gets hurt. But accidents do happen, sometimes even despite our best intentions. It's possible that the boarder was in control even though he was going fast (although 50 mph sounds pretty exaggerated) and the collision was a result of several variables lining up in just the right (or in this case, wrong) way. Maybe he hit an icy section of trail when he tried to stop or turn. Or maybe the instructor was doing that thing where the kids follow single file and weave back and forth across the trail, and he had nowhere else to go. There's a million different ways to look at it and a lot we will never know.

    Please, don't think I'm just taking the boarders side. I'm not. Chances are he was being reckless and will be held accountable. What bothers me is society's view that someone is always responsible and has to pay, when in fact, sometimes even when we take precautions accidents still happen. I hope the little girl recovers fully and that this incident doesn't keep her from being raised Jay.
    Well I don't know how it can be looked at any other way than the fact that the guy lost control. If you are skiing and you aren't able to stop yourself from hitting another person, that is losing control. Whatever the instructor was having the children do is really irrelevant. Downhill skier always as has the right of way. He should have known not to fly over an area like that without knowing who or what was below it.

  8. #68
    fbrissette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinF View Post
    I am not familiar with the layout of Jay Peak, but a big problem at many resorts is that the "beginner trails" are simply the run-out of other trails, or cris-crosses other trails. How do you block that off?
    There is always a way to block out a run, Rabbit run for example, but you already have blocked areas accessed with carpet lifts (Jay has two such areas). Once a student graduates from there, they're supposed to master the snowplow turn and should be perfectly able to ski open-access beginner trails.

    A 5 year old beginner on a beginner slope is highly predictable. They move at slow speed. You will not hit one (especially on interstate) unless you deliberately fly by, really close and really fast. There is no insurance against idiots and this is a clear case of uttermost idiocy.

  9. #69
    fbrissette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMadWorld View Post
    Well I don't know how it can be looked at any other way than the fact that the guy lost control. If you are skiing and you aren't able to stop yourself from hitting another person, that is losing control. Whatever the instructor was having the children do is really irrelevant. Downhill skier always as has the right of way. He should have known not to fly over an area like that without knowing who or what was below it.
    Well said.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by kingdom-tele View Post
    you asked if the instructor had control of an idiot. the repsonse was to highlight who the instructor was responsible for. I think it is pretty simple to see who is at fault between the two people involved in the collision, but a five year old is not a ski racer, or an employee, or otherwise aware of the implicit dangers of skiing, the instructor assumes those responsibilities I think, the instructor is an employee of the resort, the resort seems to have some partof the issue to me.

    like everyone else who is human, the adult at fault had probably made that run at that speed many times without incident, doesn't make it right, but it certainly is a development of complacency we are all susceptible to.
    If this child had been skiing on the same trail with her parents and say another sibling or two, and the same collision happened, would you still think the resort is liable based on who was leading that child? If not, then assigning blame to the instructor who was teaching the class really seems to be moot. Heck, do we even know if this was actually a private lesson with one on one instructor to kis ratio or a group lesson with a few kids to one instructor? Chances are with a 5yr old that a "group" lesson wouldn't have more than 2 kids in it so that an instructor can help not be more than 1 arms length away from the child while riding a lift
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