Jay Peak Lawsuit - Page 8

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  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by drjeff View Post
    If this child had been skiing on the same trail with her parents and say another sibling or two, and the same collision happened, would you still think the resort is liable based on who was leading that child? If not, then assigning blame to the instructor who was teaching the class really seems to be moot. Heck, do we even know if this was actually a private lesson with one on one instructor to kis ratio or a group lesson with a few kids to one instructor? Chances are with a 5yr old that a "group" lesson wouldn't have more than 2 kids in it so that an instructor can help not be more than 1 arms length away from the child while riding a lift
    No. I also have stated J isn't responsible for the actions of others.

    I would question a parent who is willing ski with their learning child in a high traffic zone filled with a variety of skier levels. I would question a resort that establishes a learning area in the same zone with minimal delineation or separation of those skiers.


  2. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by drjeff View Post
    If this child had been skiing on the same trail with her parents and say another sibling or two, and the same collision happened, would you still think the resort is liable based on who was leading that child? If not, then assigning blame to the instructor who was teaching the class really seems to be moot. Heck, do we even know if this was actually a private lesson with one on one instructor to kis ratio or a group lesson with a few kids to one instructor? Chances are with a 5yr old that a "group" lesson wouldn't have more than 2 kids in it so that an instructor can help not be more than 1 arms length away from the child while riding a lift
    Groups often are much larger than 2 beginners even at that age. I have been to resorts like Sugarbush, Okemo, Sunday River and was asked while in the lift line if I wouldn't mind adding a passenger becuase they wanted a 4-6 year old riding with an adult. How many of you have had that experience?
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  3. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by kingdom-tele View Post
    No. I also have stated J isn't responsible for the actions of others.

    I would question a parent who is willing ski with their learning child in a high traffic zone filled with a variety of skier levels. I would question a resort that establishes a learning area in the same zone with minimal delineation or separation of those skiers.
    Name the resort and you will find group lesson snakes zig zaging down a trail and not only in a beginner area. Interstate is actually a great learning area. Plenty of traffic to help with lift hitchhiking since the instructor can not be with every kid - I am sure most of us have been there done that. Also, the Metro chair is easy to get on and off.

    Plenty of resorts use the run outs as beginner terrain for lessons - Jay Peak is not the first. If there were lawsuits every year for accidents in that area then I can see it but that is not the case.
    2012-2013 (39)
    2013-2014 (36)
    2014-2015 (51)
    2015-2016 (47)

    2016-2017 target - 50

    If you take what the mountain gives you, you will always have fun!

  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by kingdom-tele View Post
    No. I also have stated J isn't responsible for the actions of others.

    I would question a parent who is willing ski with their learning child in a high traffic zone filled with a variety of skier levels. I would question a resort that establishes a learning area in the same zone with minimal delineation or separation of those skiers.
    I'm wondering just where you would take a kid skiing if not to the lower mountain lift to ski down a wide green trail?

  5. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by tnt View Post
    I'm wondering just where you would take a kid skiing if not to the lower mountain lift to ski down a wide green trail?

    the same place I took my niece when she was learning, taking a right off the metro puts you under the freezer or further left along where N glade pops out and the entrance to the beginner glade there. We olnly ever went left off the metro to cut across and make the big zig zag, play in the moonwalker woods or head down to the village chair for a few runs.

    edit: that was before the park was so large under the freezer, so it is not the best option now

    for my own kid we don't go to jay to ski yet, burke has a better set up, owls head too

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by dlague View Post
    So with that logic if a police officer drives illegally in the town he works in and causes injury to others then the Police Department is at fault too?

    He was skiing on his own time. Worst yet, he knew the area and should have had more sense!
    I dont know where you got that from, all I was saying, is that it is mighty convenient for jp that the employee was fired days before the accident, but was still using his employee pass.

  7. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by dlague View Post
    Groups often are much larger than 2 beginners even at that age. I have been to resorts like Sugarbush, Okemo, Sunday River and was asked while in the lift line if I wouldn't mind adding a passenger becuase they wanted a 4-6 year old riding with an adult. How many of you have had that experience?
    Point of reference, the date the accident occurred is listed in the article as April 17th, which was a Wednesday. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the ski school at Jay wasn't getting slammed with tons of young beginners that day

    I'll further go out on that limb and guess that the trails at Jay weren't wall to wall people on that Wednesday in mid April
    '07--08 season: 51 Days, '08-'09 season: 55 Days, '09-'10 season: 41 Days, '10-'11 season: 49 days, '11-'12 season: 40 Days '12-'13 season: 57 days, '13-'14 season, 60 days '14-'15 season 60 days, '15-'16 season 52 days, '16-'17 season: 50 days, '17-'18 season 52 days, '07-'18 seasons: 567 Days

    '18 - '19 season
    November: 17.18,23,25 (Mount Snow)
    December: 1,15,16,22,23,26,29,20 (Mount Snow) 31 (Berkshire East)
    January: 5 (Bromley) 6,12,19,20,21,26 (Mount Snow) 13 (Stratton) 27 (Wachusett)
    February: 2 (Bromley) 3 (Jiminy Peak) 9,10,16,17,23,24 (Mount Snow) 18 (Magic)
    March: 1,2 (Sugarbush) 3 (Pico) 9 (Bromley) 10 (Magic) 16,18,23,30,31 (Mount Snow) 17 (Stratton) 24 (Pats Peak)
    April: 6.7 (Mount Snow)

  8. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by kingdom-tele View Post
    the same place I took my niece when she was learning, taking a right off the metro puts you under the freezer or further left along where N glade pops out and the entrance to the beginner glade there. We olnly ever went left off the metro to cut across and make the big zig zag, play in the moonwalker woods or head down to the village chair for a few runs.

    edit: that was before the park was so large under the freezer, so it is not the best option now


    for my own kid we don't go to jay to ski yet, burke has a better set up, owls head too
    Question, since i'm by no means a Jay regular. Would that terrain that you referenced typically be open and available on a Wednesday in Mid April? The date that the accident occurred was listed as April 17th, which was a Wednesday this year. Not stereotypically a busy time of the ski season for any resort
    '07--08 season: 51 Days, '08-'09 season: 55 Days, '09-'10 season: 41 Days, '10-'11 season: 49 days, '11-'12 season: 40 Days '12-'13 season: 57 days, '13-'14 season, 60 days '14-'15 season 60 days, '15-'16 season 52 days, '16-'17 season: 50 days, '17-'18 season 52 days, '07-'18 seasons: 567 Days

    '18 - '19 season
    November: 17.18,23,25 (Mount Snow)
    December: 1,15,16,22,23,26,29,20 (Mount Snow) 31 (Berkshire East)
    January: 5 (Bromley) 6,12,19,20,21,26 (Mount Snow) 13 (Stratton) 27 (Wachusett)
    February: 2 (Bromley) 3 (Jiminy Peak) 9,10,16,17,23,24 (Mount Snow) 18 (Magic)
    March: 1,2 (Sugarbush) 3 (Pico) 9 (Bromley) 10 (Magic) 16,18,23,30,31 (Mount Snow) 17 (Stratton) 24 (Pats Peak)
    April: 6.7 (Mount Snow)

  9. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by kingdom-tele View Post
    the same place I took my niece when she was learning, taking a right off the metro puts you under the freezer or further left along where N glade pops out and the entrance to the beginner glade there. We olnly ever went left off the metro to cut across and make the big zig zag, play in the moonwalker woods or head down to the village chair for a few runs.

    edit: that was before the park was so large under the freezer, so it is not the best option now

    for my own kid we don't go to jay to ski yet, burke has a better set up, owls head too

    Totally off topic, but i really want to try Burke some day. Never been.

  10. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMadWorld View Post
    Well I don't know how it can be looked at any other way than the fact that the guy lost control. If you are skiing and you aren't able to stop yourself from hitting another person, that is losing control. Whatever the instructor was having the children do is really irrelevant. Downhill skier always as has the right of way. He should have known not to fly over an area like that without knowing who or what was below it.

    Ok, I didn't articulate my thoughts well before. What I'm saying is that things can change rapidly due to many variables, and it doesn't necessarily mean that the skier/rider was acting negligently or irresponsibly.

    For example: Say the conditions up the trail were nice and soft. He could have been in control, even at a high rate of speed and able to stop if need be, but as he came around a corner or over a rise, the surface conditions changed. Let's say it was a shady, wind-blown or scraped off area where the surface suddenly became icy. The grip level drops suddenly just as the kid comes into view and the accident happens before he can adjust to a proper speed. Is he still reckless? No. He's a victim of circumstances. When something like this happens, people often assume that the person was being stupid or careless when that may not have been the case. It may have just been an unfortunate way for rapidly evolving circumstances to play out.

    Again, I'm not saying this particular guy wasn't acting recklessly. He probably was, but it is possible for things like this to happen when it's not really anyone's fault. It could just be an honest accident, but people generally jump to the conclusion that somone is to blame.

    I'm a big advocate for personal responsibility, so when blame is warranted I believe it should be accepted by the guilty party, but we should not jump to blaming someone when we don't know all the facts, and we should remember that true accidents do happen.

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