Jay Peak bombshell - Page 139

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  1. #1381
    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    Correct. Much higher.

    Obviously this will vary by state & vary with the price of oil, but generally speaking the government makes about 6x to 8x more than the oil company does on every gallon of gas pumped into your gas tank.

    Yet how many people actually know this? I'd guess maybe 1 in 50.
    This is only partially true. These numbers only take into account profit on refined gasoline, and completely ignores any profits from the extraction and sale of crude oil directly. Conveniently, Exxon makes more in profit doing that than it does making and distributing gasoline.

    Oil and gas companies like Exxon are typically making about 6 cents on the dollar overall, which is similar to industries like construction, and still lower than the governments take.
    Last edited by AdironRider; Sep 19, 2019 at 1:24 PM.
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  2. #1382

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    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    Correct. Much higher.

    Obviously this will vary by state & vary with the price of oil, but generally speaking the government makes about 6x to 8x more than the oil company does on every gallon of gas pumped into your gas tank.

    Yet how many people actually know this? I'd guess maybe 1 in 50.
    If you had said "profit" that would have made it a lot easier to understand what point you were trying to get across.

  3. #1383
    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    This is only partially true. These numbers only take into account profit on refined gasoline, and completely ignores any profits from the extraction and sale of crude oil directly. Conveniently, Exxon makes more in profit doing that than it does making and distributing gasoline.

    Oil and gas companies like Exxon are typically making about 6 cents on the dollar overall, which is similar to industries like construction, and still lower than the governments take.
    No, it's 100% true, which you acknowledge. The rest of what you're saying while not incorrect is just strangely obfuscating my point with ancillary & disconnected details.

    If I said Disney makes more on movies than Sony, one shouldn't assume Disney isnt also involved in the sale of music, attractions or 1001 other things.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbedle View Post
    If you had said "profit" that would have made it a lot easier to understand what point you were trying to get across.
    I assumed that was obvious.
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  4. #1384
    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    No, it's 100% true, which you acknowledge. The rest of what you're saying while not incorrect is just strangely obfuscating my point with ancillary & disconnected details.
    In the broader context of whether or not the government is providing massive subsidies to the oil and gas industry, it's a valid point. The fact that the government may be making more money off a gallon of gasoline than the companies producing it is irrelevant to that broader issue if the same companies are reaping huge profits in the extraction and sale of crude oil thanks to government subsidies. I don't have an opinion on that broader issue. The articles I looked at reach their huge estimates by including indirect subsidies such as the tax benefits of LIFO accounting, accelerated depreciation schedules and master limited partnerships, which are not limited to the oil and gas industry. I think it's economically correct to view these aspects of the tax code as subsidies, but I also think that most of these articles are banking on the fact that when the general public hears about "massive subsidies for the oil and gas industry" they think of Trump writing Exxon a $10 billion check each year.


  5. #1385
    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    No, it's 100% true, which you acknowledge. The rest of what you're saying while not incorrect is just strangely obfuscating my point with ancillary & disconnected details.

    If I said Disney makes more on movies than Sony, one shouldn't assume Disney isnt also involved in the sale of music, attractions or 1001 other things.



    I assumed that was obvious.

    You whole point was that the government is making like 6-10x as much money as Exxon is, which is laughably false. Conveniently leaving out Exxon's largest profit center is not just some "ancillary detail".
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  6. #1386
    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    You whole point was that the government is making like 6-10x as much money as Exxon is, which is laughably false. Conveniently leaving out Exxon's largest profit center is not just some "ancillary detail".
    On. Every. Gallon. Of. Gasoline.

    It's 100% true.

    The way you choose to view this issue by lumping in derivative profit centers is bizarre.
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  7. #1387
    This whole conversation started about oil and gas subsidies. You leaving out the profit centers most reliant on oil and gas subsidies to obfuscate Exxon's reality is just bizarre.
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  8. #1388
    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    You whole point was that the government is making like 6-10x as much money as Exxon is, which is laughably false. Conveniently leaving out Exxon's largest profit center is not just some "ancillary detail".
    I'm not sure how this relates to the ski industry except that generally subsides handed out by the choices of a few government officals may not be the most efficient use of capital ( ok stop laughing at 'may not be')

    It relates to ski industry in that most of us own shares in Exxon Mobil/Walmart/FANGS/etc. in our retirement accounts or regular brokerage accts thru mutual funds - so it benefits us when they do well - indirectly we own them. - OK, a small micro %. The richer we feel, the more we ski, buy property, spend $$ on ancillary items , etc.

    Government doesn't 'earn' squat - it just taxes. And since 'we' are the government ( you know, by the people, for the people, etc.) we could end them. My guess is it ( all subsides) is a very small portion - call in an accounting error in the scheme of $4. something trillion.

    Since mid- 2014 each quarter has had record income to the Federal Government - when will it be enough? Never.

    Will subsidies help? In some cases it produces revenue - but its picked and chosen what industry is the flavor of the Noisies who get it - making it unfair.


    I'll say it a different way - Renaldus Magnus way : If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

    We ski and have access because we are so wealthy - compared to the rest of the worlds population.

    Final question - Are you happy with 35-55% of your income being confiscated?
    I'd say enough of us are or we'd have a Tea Party.

    Maybe Jay can be the 1st Government-owned ski area? Union lifties? After all we financed it.

  9. #1389
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    Meanwhile, back at the ranch....this shit just keeps going.

    https://vtdigger.org/2019/09/22/quir...ate-documents/

    “This case has been mixed up in the politics of the state and the players have a personal stake in the outcome,” Levine said.
    Shumlin and Leahy both wrote letters of support for the AnCBio Vermont project in the fall of 2012 that were included in the offering memorandum for foreign investors. Many of the immigrants said they would not have invested in AnCBio if not for the support of the governor and the senator.
    Last edited by thetrailboss; Sep 23, 2019 at 9:06 PM.
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  10. #1390
    Quote Originally Posted by thetrailboss View Post
    Meanwhile, back at the ranch....this shit just keeps going.

    https://vtdigger.org/2019/09/22/quir...ate-documents/
    VT Digger does good work.

    When it's other peoples money, and your not in a business (government) that people have a choice to go elsewhere for services, it inevitably gets used inappropriately or wasted ( or both).

    Still, wish the mountain well and that lessons will be learned. History doesn't always repeat itself but it does tend to rhyme.

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