Jay Peak bombshell - Page 145

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  1. #1441
    thetrailboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MEtoVTSkier View Post
    Right--I saw that. What I was saying is that I am surprised that the Judge granted his motion considering the size and seriousness of this case.
    Live, Ski, or Die!


  2. #1442
    Quote Originally Posted by VTKilarney View Post
    Quiros bought the ski area for $21.9 million. Hundreds of millions were spent improving the place. It is now allegedly worth somewhere between $80 million and $100 million.

    I'm no business expert, but that seems like a pretty horrible outcome.
    I tend to agree, though I also do not have an MBA. I don't think the fraud extends to anything outside of the EB-5 situation though, right?
    However, if people were 'donating' $500k as part of this, depending on how many he got to buy in, that helps offset that $572M... however, you'd need 1,144 people to give up $500k each to become American citizens to pay for it all.

    I honestly don't remember all the details of the EB-5 fraud, how much money was given or how many people received their American citizenship by paying for it.

  3. #1443
    I do have an MBA and I do agree; it's a joke. And that artificial manipulation of the market is dangerous & financially harmful to the players that DIDNT commit a massive fraud & get "free" government-transferred money. If you're Smuggler's Notch etc...., you should be absolutely irate.
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  4. #1444

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcb890 View Post
    However, if people were 'donating' $500k as part of this, depending on how many he got to buy in, that helps offset that $572M... however, you'd need 1,144 people to give up $500k each to become American citizens to pay for it all.
    Quote Originally Posted by thetrailboss View Post
    This is overlooking the larger point and that is not to be complete xenophobes here. One cannot say that because these foreign investors were interested in a green card that somehow losing their money to a fraudster is completely OK. I've seen this argument implicitly made in this thread--that we should not care because these investors were only trying to buy citizenship and that is wrong so them getting bilked is completely fine. Well, that policy debate was had now over 20 years ago and Congress created the EB-5 program. These investments are subject to the same consumer protections available to us as investors. In fact, the biggest reason why so many do invest in America is because of these protections (or at least some form of protection).The argument that because these folks wanted a green card and the fact that they lost their money to a fraudster is OK is complete bullshit.
    "Implicit"?

    It's pretty "Explicit"!

  5. #1445

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    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    I do have an MBA and I do agree; it's a joke. And that artificial manipulation of the market is dangerous & financially harmful to the players that DIDNT commit a massive fraud & get "free" government-transferred money. If you're Smuggler's Notch etc...., you should be absolutely irate.
    Why the hell would Smuggler's Notch be irate?

  6. #1446
    Quote Originally Posted by mbedle View Post
    Why the hell would Smuggler's Notch be irate?
    The State picking winners in the EB-5 sweepstakes of cheap easy capital.

  7. #1447
    Quote Originally Posted by abc View Post
    "Implicit"?

    It's pretty "Explicit"!
    I guess I should have said 'investing' rather than 'donating'. But, the point still stands.

    I don't necessarily disagree with trailboss that those folks who did invest got screwed. However, when you're basically just paying cash for a green card, I don't really feel bad about it going belly-up.
    Not saying it's 'OK', but I'm also not going to lose sleep over it or feel bad. I'm sure many others feel the same way, which is I think what trailboss was saying.


  8. #1448

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    Quote Originally Posted by mister moose View Post
    The State picking winners in the EB-5 sweepstakes of cheap easy capital.
    But wait, Smuggler's Notch had just as much (as still does) opportunity to use the EB-5 program to upgrade their resort.

  9. #1449

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcb890 View Post
    I guess I should have said 'investing' rather than 'donating'. But, the point still stands.

    I don't necessarily disagree with trailboss that those folks who did invest got screwed. However, when you're basically just paying cash for a green card, I don't really feel bad about it going belly-up.
    Not saying it's 'OK', but I'm also not going to lose sleep over it or feel bad. I'm sure many others feel the same way, which is I think what trailboss was saying.
    It's one thing to not feel bad if the investment failed to produce any returns because it was simply a bad investment. It's a completely different thing to not feel bad when it was a failed investment because of fraud. As far as paying cash for a green card, misdirecting your feelings towards individuals that is using a government program to legally enter this county and become a citizen is bullshit.

  10. #1450

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcb890 View Post
    I guess I should have said 'investing' rather than 'donating'. But, the point still stands.

    I don't necessarily disagree with trailboss that those folks who did invest got screwed. However, when you're basically just paying cash for a green card, I don't really feel bad about it going belly-up.
    Not saying it's 'OK', but I'm also not going to lose sleep over it or feel bad. I'm sure many others feel the same way, which is I think what trailboss was saying.
    Fraud is fraud.

    Just suppose you PAID $500 for a pair of ski and it never arrived because someone decided to use it for themselves. That's fraud. Do you think if a Mexican paid $500 and never got his skis, it's less of a fraud? I believe that's Trailboss's point.

    If you "invest" $500K on a start up and the startup gone bust, that's "risk". But if you invest that same $500K in Enron and lose it all, that's fraud. That's NOT investment risk. Do you understand the difference?

    If all of the Enron investors are Mexicans, does it make the fraud less bad so you "lose less sleep" than if the investors are American?

    That, is Trailboss's point, I believe.

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