Jay Peak bombshell

fbrissette · Oct 7, 2014

BenedictGomez said:
At this point, with what we know, I would say that it's highly unlikely SOME fraud and abuse has not occurred at some point. This is a LONG thread, and I was open-minded in the beginning, but not anymore. I can tell you that when there are hundreds of thousands of dollars touching many people with no oversight, impropriety is common.

You are all too right about this.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ption-fraud-in-investor-visa-progra/?page=all

VTKilarney · Oct 7, 2014

Perhaps the biggest fraud of all is the trumped up "job creation" statistics that these projects employ.

fbrissette · Oct 7, 2014

VTKilarney said:
Perhaps the biggest fraud of all is the trumped up "job creation" statistics that these projects employ.

As long as they're getting their visas, they're getting the most important part of their deal IMO.

Getting a visa out of a guaranteed 5-year interest-free loan does not seem very reasonable. There would be a very very long line of investors of this was the case.

VTKilarney · Oct 7, 2014

fbrissette said:
As long as they're getting their visas, they're getting the most important part of their deal IMO.

Getting a visa out of a guaranteed 5-year interest-free loan does not seem very reasonable. There would be a very very long line of investors of this was the case.

Oh, they are getting their visas. But are they getting them for creating jobs like they promised?

thetrailboss · Oct 7, 2014

VTKilarney said:
Oh, they are getting their visas. But are they getting them for creating jobs like they promised?

It's not them. The project managers need to assure that the jobs are created. The Center verifies it.

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steamboat1 · Oct 7, 2014

Stowe has invested more money & created more jobs in the ski industry over the past several years than any other VT. resort without a cent coming from the EB-5 program.

thetrailboss · Oct 7, 2014

steamboat1 said:
Stowe has invested more money & created more jobs in the ski industry over the past several years than any other VT. resort without a cent coming from the EB-5 program.

Aren't some of the lodges EB-5 funded? I know that Sugarbush and Snow used EB-5 money.

And to be fair we all bailed out AIG.

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steamboat1 · Oct 7, 2014

thetrailboss said:
And to be fair we all bailed out AIG.

Every cent paid back plus a handsome profit to the government.

Not a cent from EB-5 or bailout money for ski area improvements.

The Von Trapp family & the Stowe/ Morrisville airport tried to get EB-5 money. Don't think it ever happened though.

thetrailboss · Oct 7, 2014

steamboat1 said:
Every cent paid back plus a handsome profit to the government.

Not a cent from EB-5 or bailout money for ski area improvements.

I know the Feds did well with GM and other deals. AIG was one of them?

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steamboat1 · Oct 7, 2014

thetrailboss said:
I know the Feds did well with GM and other deals. AIG was one of them?

LOL. the feds lost $20 billion on the GM bailout. Not sure if they ever paid back $17.5 billion loan before the bailout either. SUCH A DEAL !!!!

mbedle · Oct 8, 2014

Actually the government took a $11.2 billon lost on the GM bailout and took a $20 billion gain on the AIG bailout. As far as the Trapp Family Lodge EB-5 program, I think that is still ongoing but having a hard time finding investors.

BenedictGomez · Oct 8, 2014

VTKilarney said:
Oh, they are getting their visas. But are they getting them for creating jobs like they promised?

No. The "jobs created" metric these programs use and the absurd stretches of logic they employ to greatly boost the numbers is a complete farce. It's laughable.

steamboat1 · Oct 8, 2014

thetrailboss said:
AIG was one of them?

Not only did the government get back all it's money but they made a $22 billion dollar profit on the deal. Guess that helps offset the losses the government incurred with the GM deal. In other news Hank Greenberg (former CEO of AIG) & a large stakeholder in the company is sueing the government for $40 billion over the deal. The trial is going on right now. Geitner has been on the stand the past two days. Greenberg was not the CEO when the company nearly collasped.

mattchuck2 · Oct 8, 2014

Just jumping in here because I read an interesting article today that says that yes, we made money off the AIG deal, but it really wasn't a great deal:

Finally, Sorkin again makes the annoying assertion on the AIG bailout that, "we got our money back — with more than $22 billion in profit."

This one deserves derision. Access to liquidity back in 2008-2009 carried an enormous premium. We gave $192 billion to AIG at a time when other companies were dying for cash. We would have made an enormous profit if we had invested government cash almost anywhere. For example, if we lent $192 billion to Dean Baker's Excellent Hedge Fund, which used it to invest in the S&P 500 and then split the gains with the government, the country would have pocketed over $100 billion from the deal. So would Dean Baker's Excellent Hedge Fund.

Article here:
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs...-aig-was-a-way-to-give-money-to-goldman-sachs

mattchuck2 · Oct 8, 2014

Sorry, double post

thetrailboss · Oct 8, 2014

mbedle said:
Actually the government took a $11.2 billon lost on the GM bailout and took a $20 billion gain on the AIG bailout. As far as the Trapp Family Lodge EB-5 program, I think that is still ongoing but having a hard time finding investors.

Wow. You're right:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/30/us-autos-gm-treasury-idUSBREA3T0MR20140430

The last I heard was a certain President touting all the benefits and how we made out like bandits.

AdironRider · Oct 8, 2014

mattchuck2 said:
Just jumping in here because I read an interesting article today that says that yes, we made money off the AIG deal, but it really wasn't a great deal:

Article here:
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs...-aig-was-a-way-to-give-money-to-goldman-sachs

Yeah lets monday morning QB investment returns and say it was a bad deal.

If it was so easy the financial collapse wouldn't have happened in the first place.

And the suggestion to put everything in a hedge fund, where they charge 2% plus an average of 30% of the profit, yeah thats a great idea.

BenedictGomez · Oct 8, 2014

thetrailboss said:
The last I heard was a certain President touting all the benefits and how we made out like bandits.

The intention was never to bail out GM, that was a farce. The intention, and achieved goal, was to bail out the various Unions that donate millions of dollars annually to Democratic candidates.

While not widely reported by the biased media, if you follow the bizarre financial structure of the deals (including Chrysler), that fact becomes overtly obvious. If this subject interests you, see story/link below.

President Obama touts the bailout of General Motors and Chrysler as one of the signature successes of his administration. He argues that the estimated $23 billion the taxpayers lost was worth paying to avoid massive job losses. However, our research finds that the president could have both kept the auto makers running and avoided losing money. The preferential treatment given to the United Auto Workers accounts for the American taxpayers' entire losses from the bailout. Had the UAW received normal treatment in standard bankruptcy proceedings, the Treasury would have recouped its entire investment. Three irregularities in the bankruptcy case resulted in a windfall to the UAW.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303768104577462650268680454

mattchuck2 · Oct 8, 2014

AdironRider said:
Yeah lets monday morning QB investment returns and say it was a bad deal.

If it was so easy the financial collapse wouldn't have happened in the first place.

And the suggestion to put everything in a hedge fund, where they charge 2% plus an average of 30% of the profit, yeah thats a great idea.

That was supposed to be a funny example of ONE way the gov't could have made a lot of money. It seemed to go completely over your head. Why not read the whole article, chief?

I'm just saying, Warren Buffett knew what he was doing and got really favorable deals from nervous companies. The government decided to just hand out cheap money to some companies, but not others, and didn't really make out as well as it could have.

steamboat1 · Oct 8, 2014

GM was also gifted $45 billion in tax loss carry overs from the old GM. They're still writing that off to this day. Please tell me again how much we really lost on the GM deal.

Jay Peak bombshell

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