This weather is hurting the majority of the ski business

Killington was much slower then I anticipated this week. Made for some great skiing though.

Mount Snow is seemingly trying to make up for a slow President's all at once today!!! Its still cold, about -5 at 1st chair, and a decent breeze up top (roughly 20mph range) but even before the "crack o' 10:30" crowd hits the hill its BUSY!!

deadheadskier said:

The masses aren't diehards.

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That was my assumption. Thus the decrease in day ticket sales.


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http://www.saminfo.com/news/presidents’-week-tale-east-west

Yep, those that have the snow are too cold; those that are warm have no snow.


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The trend for weekend/early week storms has worked out well for someone like me, who skis midweek. I've had some beautiful Wed-Thursday ski days but getting more than one nice day has been difficult. You'll get one nice day and then the temperatures will plummet, winds pick up and that alone is a big deterrent to your average skier.

This past Wednesday I headed up to the Catskills for a few days. On Wednesday, the weather and conditions were the best I've had all season after all the snow that was dumped over the President's Day Weekend and it stayed cold. A lot of schools were closed so there wer quite a few people out during midweek..a lot of families and kids but fortunately it wasn't too crowded but many were obviously taking advantage of the great weather. Temperatures rose into the 20s with sun and no wind and it was pure heaven.

I wanted to stay and ski again Thursday but woke up to 2 degrees and snowing lightly (which isn't a problem) but the 30-40 mph winds and resulting wind chill killed it. I could barely walk to my car, never mind ski down the mountain, so I packed up and went home and judging by the traffic heading out of town that day, I wasn't the only one. Since then it's been single digits and windy, so we pretty much had that ONE nice day all week.

I'll bet more than one person has reacted this way this season and it adds up. Warm and wet is bad but single digits and windy can be almost as bad too. Fresh snow getting blown off the mountain and lifts being put on wind holds aren't good things.

I'm hoping for a more benign March but that it stays cold so we don't lose the nice base. It looks like after Sunday things might be improving for next week and I'm planning to head out Wednesday again. Unfortunately for the resorts the mentality of the general public is that ski season is over after Presidents Day and people start shopping for bathing suits and planning what to plant in their gardens. I'd love to get some more skiing in though. Been doing cross country skiing too, which is a nice alternative as woods tends to be a bit more sheltered and you stay warmer.

thetrailboss said:

http://www.saminfo.com/news/presidents’-week-tale-east-west

Yep, those that have the snow are too cold; those that are warm have no snow.

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Yep, I heard quite a few people saying this while skiing this past Wednesday....that they had been out west and the skiing was BETTER in the Catskills or the same. Ouch! I plan on moving out west next year and often check out the weather there and have to admit that it would make for better hiking/camping then skiing. It's why I have a lot of hobbies.

Funny that you brought this up – I was thinking the same thing earlier this week; “wow it’s Presidents Day weekend and school vacation week and no one’s here”. My feelings vacillated between “uh-oh, some ski areas are going to fail and the industry is in trouble” and “it’s too cold and everyone’s too sick of snow anyway to go skiing”.

Part of my concern for what this means to skiing is that I have always been old-school about winter ski vacations. If we were up at the mountain for vacation - we went out (for at least a little while) whether it was raining, snowing, meteors falling, temps hovering around sub-arctic level, god-awful slope conditions, etc. This was true when I was a kid and it’s true now that I am the parent taking the kids to the mountain. So I expected there to be more crowds on the slopes the last few days. I just figured that people would "get out". I mean, what else are you going to do, sit in your house and stare at piles of snow outside of your windows? I expected to have to endure some monster lines but found the exact opposite.

My experiences this past week:

Bolton Valley Monday 2/16, Presidents Day: Very cold & some wind hold lifts. But there was literally maybe 100 people skiing there that day. The sun was out & it was Presidents Day. I thought that with the wind holds everywhere and it being a holiday that a lot of people would opt for the less expensive & closer to Burlington ski area. Only about 100 did.

Stowe Tuesday 2/17, School vacation: Cold again, but sun was out. After the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] lift up, we skied onto the lift or gondis all day long. No lines, no waits. Not very busy on the mountain. Took many runs where we were alone or saw 1 other group. Walked around the lodge/Spruce area after the mountain closed. It was dead. Restaurants were half full & shops were empty. This should have been “prime time” for this area & it should have been jumping après-ski. It wasn't.

Sugarbush Wednesday 2/18, School vacation: Sunny, mid 20’s temp. Parking lots were pretty light. Skied onto lifts most times all day. At lunch, the lodge was busier than I thought it would be with lots of families. My theory is that the condos and rental homes were doing well with vacationing families but no one was driving to the mountain to ski. I also think that the entire area was in play so that spread people out all over the place, including a lot of tree skiing that isn’t usually available. So maybe it was busier than it felt. But even if you give me those points; It was ski-onto lifts on one of the best days of the year in the middle of school vacation week. That just doesn’t feel right (feels great as a skier, but makes me nervous about the future of the sport).

Maybe I worry too much, but it was really noticeable this past week.

Whitey said:

. I mean, what else are you going to do, sit in your house and stare at piles of snow outside of your windows? I expected to have to endure some monster lines but found the exact opposite.

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Video games and Netflix!The real enemy of ski areas.


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I wasn't in VT. this week (blacked out) but while I was up last week I did notice that the ski area I was at (Killington) was busier than normal during the week. I like others ski mostly during the week & last Tuesday was the first time all season I had wait in any kind of significant line (10min. for the K-1 gondi). Last Tues.-Thurs. the weather was milder than it has been this week with temps mostly in the upper teens & low 20's which is perfect skiing weather. We even picked up a few inches Thurs. during the day with mild temps. Maybe it was the weather that brought people out. Friday was a different story with temps dropping well below zero during the night (-16 & windy when I woke up Fri. morning). I opted to drive home instead of skiing.

I think a lot of the day-trippers have stayed home due to the weather. They see the forecast and bag it. Those who have definite vacation plans probably went anyway but hid out in their hotel rooms and condos when it's single digits and 30-50 mph wind gusts. Only the really hardcore venture out then.

More than once I've taken a multi day skiing vacation with my daughter and often we'll take a day off when the weather is bad and just chill out, usually when it rains though. I don't mind cold, dislike wind but hate cold rain so if it's raining or miserably cold/windy one day out of 3 we'll take a day off. We've gone skiing when the actual temperature is -5 degrees with 30 mph winds and braved it. Still remember one time we were skiing Killington and the high for the day was 5 degrees. The winds were so fierce we were literally being blown UP the mountain. We just took a lot of breaks but enjoyed the day but it wasn't a crowded day!

Sure everyone wants a bluebird day in the 30s with no wind but sometimes Mother Nature isn't cooperating. When you go on a ski vacation you take what you get and hope for the best, just like any vacation where you plan to be outdoors.

I'm so glad that at least around here the ski resorts no longer charge holiday/weekend prices for midweek skiing the week after President's Day. I hated that. I don't even take off Presidents Day!

I definitely saw an increase in crowds over the usual midweek crowds at Hunter but it wasn't all that bad. Nice crowd, mostly families. Most colleges don't have break now so it's not like it is at Christmas or MLK weekend.

Wavewheeler said:

I'm so glad that at least around here the ski resorts no longer charge holiday/weekend prices for midweek skiing the week after President's Day. I hated that. I don't even take off Presidents Day!

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In VT. at least they charge holiday/weekend rates during all of Presidents week. At least the areas that have those rates, some are the same price everyday regardless (Stowe for example).

steamboat1 said:

In VT. at least they charge holiday/weekend rates during all of Presidents week. At least the areas that have those rates, some are the same price everyday regardless (Stowe for example).

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It's one reason I don't head north that week...plus the increase in crowds. I only ski midweek and having yet another week "blacked out" in prime ski season is a real downer.

Stowe is amazingly expensive. Great place but due to their high prices combined with an 8 hour drive I haven't been there in years.

Down this way they used to have holiday rates for the entire week after Presidents Day but this year that seems to have changed and now they just charge it for the weekend and Monday. Maybe they figured out that it deters regular midweek skiers like myself from going. I don't know but I'm not complaining.

It's snowing here at the Jersey Shore. It's Saturday, I'm home napping and watching Netflix/playing video games and I'm waiting until Wednesday to enjoy a midweek ski day.

Wavewheeler said:

It's one reason I don't head north that week...plus the increase in crowds. I only ski midweek and having yet another week "blacked out" in prime ski season is a real downer.

Stowe is amazingly expensive. Great place but due to their high prices combined with an 8 hour drive I haven't been there in years.

Down this way they used to have holiday rates for the entire week after Presidents Day but this year that seems to have changed and now they just charge it for the weekend and Monday. Maybe they figured out that it deters regular midweek skiers like myself from going. I don't know but I'm not complaining.

It's snowing here at the Jersey Shore. It's Saturday, I'm home napping and watching Netflix/playing video games and I'm waiting until Wednesday to enjoy a midweek ski day. :smile:

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Same thing here, planning on being in VT. Tues.-Fri. this week. Stowe really isn't as expensive as it's perceived to be. Online tickets are $89 which is competitive with rates charged by other areas. You could even sit in the base lodge the morning your skiing & order your ticket online instead of walking to the ticket window & paying walk-up rate. I also use VT. passes at Stowe which is a little over $40 & they also offer ski club appreciation days several days every month which are $44. Been there once already this season & hope to ski there a few more days before the season is over. I ski one area (K) the most because I have a pass & it's closest to our VT. house but I do like getting around a little.

I'm guessing the East will fare better than much of the west.

Skiing is weather dependent. You're never going to escape that.

I was reading an article about North Creek. In 1934, the skiing started when there was enough snow on the ground to ski... the first week in March.

The difference was that people in the Adks considered tourist money from skiing as a bonus, not full time employment.

People just need to learn how to dress warm and ski hard, and quit being such wimps! After growing up skiing at Gore with -50 wind chill regularly, this winter has been toasty warm compared to that, and we didn't have all the high tech gear there is now to keep you warm...

joshua segal said:

over-the-counter retail customers at the day-trip areas, the fiscal bread-and-butter of the industry, are staying away in droves!

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I have to believe this is true. I've already cancelled plans twice to hit n.VT this year, bagging one weekend and skiing the other weekend at Platty (further south and warmer) instead. I'm monitoring the models for next weekend as well, also planning on going to n.VT, but it doesn't look good. Probably another weekend skiing at Platty. Now, I'm more than a casual skier, so I'm still going to ski, but I'll go somewhere where it's not -19 to 9 degrees. To those "bread & butter" folks you speak of though? I imagine they see, "High of 8 degrees, windchills as low as -25", on the nightly news and they say "SCREW THAT!".

Shredder of Gnar said:

People just need to learn how to dress warm and ski hard, and quit being such wimps! After growing up skiing at Gore with -50 wind chill regularly, this winter has been toasty warm compared to that

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Yeah, that didn't happen.

In terms of actual holiday experience I've noted this year, this was the 4th or 5th year in a row I've gone to Whiteface for MLK weekend, so I have a good handle what I should see.

This year was negatives in the morning and single digit highs, and I'm 100% sure it's the fewest skiers I've seen at Whiteface for MLK weekend since I've been going there. Saturday was DEAD. Sunday it warmed up considerably and was more crowded (so many people stayed in hotels, good for lodging folks if so), but to my eye it was still fewer people than the usual MLK Sunday at Whiteface.

BenedictGomez said:

I have to believe this is true. I've already cancelled plans twice to hit n.VT this year, bagging one weekend and skiing the other weekend at Platty (further south and warmer) instead. I'm monitoring the models for next weekend as well, also planning on going to n.VT, but it doesn't look good. Probably another weekend skiing at Platty. Now, I'm more than a casual skier, so I'm still going to ski, but I'll go somewhere where it's not -19 to 9 degrees. To those "bread & butter" folks you speak of though? I imagine they see, "High of 8 degrees, windchills as low as -25", on the nightly news and they say "SCREW THAT!".



Yeah, that didn't happen.

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Wrongo BG, you must be a youngen -- they regularly handed out blankets before you got on the East Chair at Gore in late 60s, and patrollers would be standing where you got off the lift to check faces and send anybody inside if there were any white spots... that was the norm from late Dec thru early March back then...

Another thing to take into consideration, with all this snow some of us have had ice dam, snow issues... So rather than getting out on the weekends, I have been tending to this, which sucks... Hope tomorrow to make it to the crotch at least, hell I will take wachusett even

Shredder of Gnar said:

Wrongo BG, you must be a youngen -- they regularly handed out blankets before you got on the East Chair at Gore in late 60s, and patrollers would be standing where you got off the lift to check faces and send anybody inside if there were any white spots... that was the norm from late Dec thru early March back then...

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The late '60s...I hear there were some amazingly cold/snowy winters back then. I was born then but didn't experience except to play in it as a kid. I remember more winters where the snow was scarce and I cursed the rain that washed it away during the very real "January Thaws". In college we went up to Stowe for a week and got one day of mediocre skiing in on thin, icy cover before it was all washed away by 2 days of rain. We wound up going to Montreal for a road trip and drank a lot of beer in the hotel room. Of course on the way back home it was snowing. I wanted to turn the car back around but was outvoted.

It's been like that a lot. I chose the last week in January for our annual ski vacation because that's the coldest, snowiest time of the year. Sometimes we did get it. Once at Windham in the late '90s the ACTUAL temperature was -30 degrees with 25 mph wind gusts. I took my daughter to the ski shop and outfitted in her the proper gear and we hit the slopes. It was like that for all 3 days we were there. One year at Killington we woke up to almost 2 feet of snow and I was glad for my Jeep Wrangler's 4 wheel drive as we drove out of the parking lot filled with fellow skiers shoveling out their cars. We hit first chair that day.

But just as often I've cursed the weather for warming up and raining on us when it should be snowing and if it wasn't for snowmaking there wouldn't have been any skiing. That's how it was both January 2012 and 2013 up in Killington. In 2013 it was brown all the way up to Killington and even on the peak the snow was spotty. That year I went up to Hunter at the end of March, not to ski but to hike. I was in shorts and had the top down on my Jeep.

This year it's been a matter of too much snow, cold and wind which I find that ironic since for many years I would've welcomed 3 degrees/snow over 35 and rain. But as someone pointed out, skiing is an outdoor activity so it's always weather dependent. Same the other things I love, be it hiking/backpacking, camping, kayaking, etc. You dress for it and hope for the best.