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Instructor guilty in client's avi death

legalskier

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He now faces a suspended sentence for manslaughter:
http://snowbrains.com/ski-instructor-charged-with-manslaughter-in-avalanche-death/

He apparently proceeded in the face of a known risk: 'According to Meteo France on the 9th "recent accumulations remain very volatile because of the widespread presence of sub-layers of old fragile facetted snow. The passage of a skier can be enough to trigger a surface slab, a number of skiers can trigger a large slide”.'
http://pistehors.com/ski-instructor-faces-18-month-suspended-sentence-23766877.htm
 

C-Rex

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Wow, I'm not sure how I feel about that. There is very little detail in the story and a lot of "ifs" that can change the whole thing. It's certainly bad for the guided backcountry skiing industry. That kind of liability is not something it needs. It's possible (even probable, given the verdict) this guy made some poor choices, but it's also possible to make good decisions and still have something go horribly wrong. Making instructors and guides liable for that is not really fair.
 

drjeff

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Was he working at the time? I know that I'm protected from being sued as long as I have my instructor jacket on and am on the clock.

Based on US laws, that's probably the big question at hand. Was the instructor in question here "on the clock" at his ski area of employment (I.e. did the deceased purchase the instructors services through the resort) or was the instructor working "off the clock" from his resort of employment, essentially acting as an independent contractor, but stating that he's an instructor at such and such.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, very often in Europe there's far less separation between what a guide (in the US sense) does and what many instructors (in the US sense) do
 

HowieT2

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Was he working at the time? I know that I'm protected from being sued as long as I have my instructor jacket on and am on the clock.

Don't equate civil liability with criminal responsibility. These guides were charged with and convicted of a criminal offense. if you commit a crime, you can be held criminally responsible for same, even though your employer may indemnify you from civil liability for the damages caused.
 

HowieT2

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This does set a bad precedent!

hard to say not knowing the facts. One would think that the guides actions were somewhat egregious such that they were convicted of this. My experience, limited though it may be, skiing with guides, is that they are particularly aware of avalanche danger and proceed accordingly. I mean, that is for the most part, what a guide is for. I certainly would expect a guide, not to take a client into an area of known high avalanche danger. Sure, bad things can happen unexpectedly, but that doesnt seem to be the case here.
 

fbrissette

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Based on US laws, that's probably the big question at hand. Was the instructor in question here "on the clock" at his ski area of employment (I.e. did the deceased purchase the instructors services through the resort) or was the instructor working "off the clock" from his resort of employment, essentially acting as an independent contractor, but stating that he's an instructor at such and such.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, very often in Europe there's far less separation between what a guide (in the US sense) does and what many instructors (in the US sense) do

In Europe ski guides are normally independent from ski resorts. They operate on their own or work for guiding outfits. A guide in Europe is very very different from a ski instructor. To be a guide requires years of training and experience in snow, ice and rock techniques (all three which differs from NA).

For many guides, in order to make a decent living, the pressure to take clients on marginal days is very high. You don't go out and you don't get paid. You go out and stick to safe slopes (meaning low angle boring slopes for advances skiers) and your client may not be happy and won't come back.

Very difficult job.
 

Abubob

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Scruffy

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In Europe ski guides are normally independent from ski resorts. They operate on their own or work for guiding outfits. A guide in Europe is very very different from a ski instructor. To be a guide requires years of training and experience in snow, ice and rock techniques (all three which differs from NA).

For many guides, in order to make a decent living, the pressure to take clients on marginal days is very high. You don't go out and you don't get paid. You go out and stick to safe slopes (meaning low angle boring slopes for advances skiers) and your client may not be happy and won't come back.

Very difficult job.

+1. Mountaineering guides ( which include skiing ) in Europe are very different than the US, we don't even have anything remotely like their system. The training is long and rigorous, and the certifications actually mean something, not at all like our PSIA levels. They are held to a higher standard, and this isn't the first time one has been legally charged for negligence.
 

C-Rex

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Very hard to say without knowing the details. Was the guide/instructor properly trained? Did he apply said training with sound judgment? Did he advise the client not to go but the client pressed anyway? Or was he in over his head to begin with and falsely represented himself and his credentials? It sounds like the warning signs of avalanche danger were there and were not heeded. That leaves how the guide advised his client as the big issue, and whether or not the client listened. Being dead, it's hard to say, and we don't even know the guide's side of the story. I'd be interested to learn more.

I'd feel bad for the guy if it was a case of giving sound advice that was ignored, resulting in the death of a client. I'm sure his guiding days are over either way.
 

HowieT2

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Very hard to say without knowing the details. Was the guide/instructor properly trained? Did he apply said training with sound judgment? Did he advise the client not to go but the client pressed anyway? Or was he in over his head to begin with and falsely represented himself and his credentials? It sounds like the warning signs of avalanche danger were there and were not heeded. That leaves how the guide advised his client as the big issue, and whether or not the client listened. Being dead, it's hard to say, and we don't even know the guide's side of the story. I'd be interested to learn more.

I'd feel bad for the guy if it was a case of giving sound advice that was ignored, resulting in the death of a client. I'm sure his guiding days are over either way.

interesting. I feel bad for the dead client and his family.
 
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