Whaleback Mountain Updates

deadheadskier · Mar 10, 2020

raisingarizona said:
I often feel that chair lifts may be a bad idea for these small mom and pop or non-profit areas. Surface lifts seem a lot easier from a cost and maintenance perspective.

True, but it would be a crazy steep T Bar for them to make happen. At an area that caters to a lot of new skiers and struggles to attract business, I don't think it would be good for them to install what would be the most challenging surface lift in New England. I suppose you could install two surface lifts to the summit going up less steep terrain than the Face, but either side of the mountain would run into problems with ski trails crossing lift paths. Hopefully the repair can happen for next season. What probably needs to happen is to set up a multi-year fund raising campaign to replace the double with a newer used chair.

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Killingtime · Mar 10, 2020

JamaicaMan said:
Season pass holders of Whaleback are welcome to ski Magic at no cost through end of our season due to the lift issues...just bring Whaleback pass to our ticket office.

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That is extremely generous. BTW- skied Magic for the first time ever this year. Loved it.

jaybird · Mar 10, 2020

Poor Evan.
Given the effort he and his team have put in, (especially on the funding front) it's gonna be tough to cover additional improvements. Kimball Union ain't gonna front the money required to fix or replace that chair.

MEtoVTSkier · Mar 10, 2020

JamaicaMan said:
Season pass holders of Whaleback are welcome to ski Magic at no cost through end of our season due to the lift issues...just bring Whaleback pass to our ticket office.

Very generous, and way to show that the Industry can work together to help each other out through the rough spots.

raisingarizona · Mar 10, 2020

deadheadskier said:
True, but it would be a crazy steep T Bar for them to make happen. At an area that caters to a lot of new skiers and struggles to attract business, I don't think it would be good for them to install what would be the most challenging surface lift in New England. I suppose you could install two surface lifts to the summit going up less steep terrain than the Face, but either side of the mountain would run into problems with ski trails crossing lift paths. Hopefully the repair can happen for next season. What probably needs to happen is to set up a multi-year fund raising campaign to replace the double with a newer used chair.
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Back in the day people climbed up with 7 foot long wooden skis and leather boots or used rope tows.

I agree that a carpet for learning slopes is best practice but I could definitely have taught my kid at age 4 to use a steep t bar. Maybe people have become too soft?

jaybird · Mar 10, 2020

Anyone remember the ascent on the Jet Tbar at Jay Peak ?
Back in the day .. that was one heavy duty lift to ride .. Exhausting!
.. on a Snowboard .. forgetaboutit.

kbroderick · Mar 10, 2020

jaybird said:
Anyone remember the ascent on the Jet Tbar at Jay Peak ?
Back in the day .. that was one heavy duty lift to ride .. Exhausting!
.. on a Snowboard .. forgetaboutit.

Snowboarders are a big issue with surface lifts. As best I can tell, it's far more challenging than riding one on skis, especially when the track gets steep or rough. It's not a problem at all for good riders, but for newbies, it can be cringeworthy to watch (even more so than newbie skiers, who can also be cringeworthy).

I believe the latest ANSI regs for lift setup prohibit surface lifts from crossing any ski trails, so it's a lot more challenging now than it was a few years ago to route a surface lift. The uphill capacity on a modern T-Bar does beat a double (rope speed can be far higher), but if you (a) can't find a good route and (b) can't run at full speed because people have trouble loading quickly enough, it's a theoretical advantage.

deadheadskier · Mar 10, 2020

raisingarizona said:
Back in the day people climbed up with 7 foot long wooden skis and leather boots or used rope tows.

I agree that a carpet for learning slopes is best practice but I could definitely have taught my kid at age 4 to use a steep t bar. Maybe people have become too soft?

Okay Bode Miller with 4 year old prodigy child, maybe you could. But even "back in the day" the vast majority of skiers would have a very hard time with a T Bar on the Face. The closest comparison I can think of would be the old summit T bars at Cannon. I'd say the Face would be even a bit more difficult than that near the top of the headwall.

I remember riding the Cannon T Bar with my dad when I was about 9 years old and it wasn't easy. We were both pretty decent skiers, but to have the bar just below my butt required it to be at about knee level for my dad. Yes you can kind of tilt it some, but it's still not an easy ride on a very steep slope.

And as Newpylong also pointed out, a surface lift would require additional snow to be made as well as track maintenance.

I'm not in disagreement with you that surface lifts are often the better play financially for Mom and Pop areas, but the topography at Whaleback doesn't really work for one.

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Keelhauled · Mar 10, 2020

jaybird said:
Poor Evan.
Given the effort he and his team have put in, (especially on the funding front) it's gonna be tough to cover additional improvements. Kimball Union ain't gonna front the money required to fix or replace that chair.

Is he still affiliated with the mountain? I thought it was a total turnover of staff and ownership when they went bankrupt and then the non-profit was formed.

Vaughn · Mar 10, 2020

I assume Whaleback management is trying to get in touch with the kid from the Magic thread so he can devise a solution for their chairlift woes.

Newpylong · Mar 10, 2020

Keelhauled said:
Is he still affiliated with the mountain? I thought it was a total turnover of staff and ownership when they went bankrupt and then the non-profit was formed.

Yes, Evan's group (Whaleback LLC) went bankrupt in 2013. After which the non-profit UVSSF was formed and purchased the mountain at auction. It has operated as such since.

Evan however remains a key supporter by coaching the freestyle team, helping run Adult Race League, among other things. Whaleback is lucky to have the continued support of friends like Magic and past owners who want to see the place survive.

Obviously the financial situation is dire after so many unanticipated expenses and the poor winter, but they are scheduled to repair the chair in May as a short term yet costly solution to get back running.

Long term is even more tricky. The Tramway board has made it very clear that they will not load test the lift again in 7 years and are under pressure to enact a maximum lifetime on lifts and as such they do not recommend planning around a used lift as it could become an issue in the near future. I imagine there are other places like Black with their Mueller/Riblet which are also going to run into the same problem.

Poma has already come to visit and provide numbers (on chair and surface options) and they're going to get the same from Dopplemeyer and Partek.

deadheadskier · Apr 10, 2020

Newpylong said:
Their GM was laid off today. A Doors song comes to mind.

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thetrailboss · Aug 7, 2023

Great article on their Executive Director and his positive impact:

Hometown Hero: Keeping a non-profit ski area going

When Jonathan Hunt came on board at Whaleback Mountain, which like many independent ski areas had repeatedly flirted with failure for 20 years, he knew that it would take more than speeding up the chairlift to keep things going. “Immediately my job...

www.concordmonitor.com

deadheadskier · Aug 7, 2023

I just worry about that double chair. As soon as it dies, so does Whaleback unless they get a big angel donor

Abubob · Aug 7, 2023

deadheadskier said:
I just worry about that double chair. As soon as it dies, so does Whaleback unless they get a big angel donor

Anything short of a Super Heavy Booster launch can be repaired.

BodeMiller1 · Aug 7, 2023

I'd think you'd need to live within 20 miles of the place to make it worth while. Don't get me wrong I hope they pull it off (again).

tumbler · Aug 7, 2023

When I drove by today there was a large excavator working the front main trail and it looked like the lift was gone. I could be wrong between the rain and speed I was going but the machine looked like it was on the liftline.

Newpylong · Aug 7, 2023

The double is definitely not gone. They are installing a platter tow (similar to what they have in the beginner area) up skier's right Lower Spout to access that trail and the Canyon (terrain park). I don't agree with the move, but it is what it is.

They put big money into the double chair last year. Fixed the two nagging tower issues, replaced the diesel APU, all of the comms, controls and the drive. Yes it should be replaced, but that would take a major donor/grant and it will continue to operate reliably if they continue to invest in it. More capacity is certainly not needed, but would help the learning programs.

They have a federal grant application in for major snowmaking capacity improvements which would check off many of the things we wanted to do for years. I hope they get it because ideal snowmaking periods are so short here and they/we have never been able to put a dependable product down in any reasonable amount of time due to mechanical and capacity restraints.

I have met their Executive Director and have heard nothing but positive things about him or the atmosphere he is building.

Abubob · Aug 7, 2023

@Newpylong : I don't agree with the move, but it is what it is.

I love surface lifts. Why don’t you agree with them putting one in?

Smellytele · Aug 7, 2023

Abubob said:
I love surface lifts. Why don’t you agree with them putting one in?

Believe it is the location not that it is a surface lift. Also probably the money could be used else where.

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