Saddleback

bigbog · Feb 12, 2016

fiddleski said:
Hard to imagine Les Otten in this case, since he would be competing directly against his own Balsams mega-resort plan. I would imagine his fellow investors might have something to say about that. On the other hand, I'm sure he would find it very satisfying to poke a stick at SL, SR.

You'd find it strange for Les to not be a player again and provide an alternative, for skiers, to Boyne?

EPB · Feb 12, 2016

There's no real path too him doing that besides getting his existing ownership group on board with Saddleback AND finding the money for it. I'd find it hard to believe that he could pull it off.

bigbog · Feb 12, 2016

joshua segal said:
According to my sources, there were plans to begin snowmaking and open in time for Feb. vacation week. With last Weds. rainstorm/blowtorch in the forecasts, they changed their mind, feeling that the upcoming westher would render the effort useless and a waste of money. Usually, by this time of year, there is plenty of natural snow at Saddleback on which to operate, but my source tells me: not so this year.

Temps have been just fine up here. IMO times like this are when you bargain tough and buy...guess we shall see.

EPB:
>There's no real path too him doing that besides getting his existing ownership group on board with >Saddleback AND finding the money for it. I'd find it hard to believe that he could pull it off.

You're probably right EPB... but you never know..some areas of the resort could be re-planted for new growth. Think number of lifts is fine, just upgrade where needed + snowmaking. Lodge expansion in time. In making development = go for the views! Close proximity to lifts can be important for parents..but alternative-fueled shuttles are so common now = should be the standard...and imho..a resort doesn't need as many groomed trails(in good conditions) as in the past/present. So many skiers, with so many choices for a little more width underfoot, can have better experiences with natural cover, again...with decent temps. If not hard, windblown for days....crud is just a minor inconvenience to be skied through these days...think a lot of skiers would welcome it to hone the skills...$.01.

yeggous · Feb 12, 2016

eastern powder baby said:
There's no real path too him doing that besides getting his existing ownership group on board with Saddleback AND finding the money for it. I'd find it hard to believe that he could pull it off.

Does anybody know what the actual sales terms are?

For example, when Wildcat was sold the price was $5M. Of that amount, Peak Resorts only paid about $500k cash, and the balance was taken on as debt payable to the seller. Do you think that Les could pull together a 10% down payment and assume an IOU to the Berry family for the balance?

EPB · Feb 12, 2016

Point taken. I'd imagine they wouldn't buy a place without developing it though, which would be substantially more expensive

ss20 · Feb 12, 2016

yeggous said:
Do you think that Les could pull together a 10% down payment and assume an IOU to the Berry family for the balance?

I don't think Les needs to write an IOU... That'd be like Bill Gates writing an IOU to buy a computer.

capt'n · Feb 12, 2016

ss20 said:
I don't think Les needs to write an IOU... That'd be like Bill Gates writing an IOU to buy a computer.

I remember when the ASC was sinking and took out a loan for 25M at 25%.....

DoublePlanker · Feb 12, 2016

Balsams is not delayed due to the developer. It is going thru the approvals process. So Les is NOT dragging his feet on that.

fiddleski · Feb 12, 2016

bigbog said:
You'd find it strange for Les to not be a player again and provide an alternative, for skiers, to Boyne?

Personally, I don't find it strange at all. But it's my understanding that Les's money is a rather small percentage of the investment planned for the Balsams build-out. He would have to convince a lot of people that another big resort right next door in a neighboring state is an asset rather than a competitive liability. He's also got the state backing him, so politicians would want to weigh in. It seems a stretch with the Balsams not even off the ground yet, but who knows, he might be able to do it.

SIKSKIER · Feb 12, 2016

fiddleski said:
. He would have to convince a lot of people that another big resort right next door in a neighboring state is an asset rather than a competitive liability. it.

I wouldn't call it even close to "next door".Its about an hour and a half drive.

fiddleski · Feb 12, 2016

SIKSKIER said:
I wouldn't call it even close to "next door".Its about an hour and a half drive.

But still very much in the same region of NE, especially from the viewpoint of those driving from metro areas.

capt'n · Feb 12, 2016

fiddleski said:
But still very much in the same region of NE, especially from the viewpoint of those driving from metro areas.

I think the balsam business model is that "they" will be flying in or their chauffeurs will be driving them. Both saddleback and the balsams are a looooong way from anywhere, and certainly not a day trip for most metro dwellers. Big development dreams based on condo's and mic mansions.

Jully · Feb 13, 2016

capt'n said:
I think the balsam business model is that "they" will be flying in or their chauffeurs will be driving them. Both saddleback and the balsams are a looooong way from anywhere, and certainly not a day trip for most metro dwellers. Big development dreams based on condo's and mic mansions.

All the more reason not to buy two resorts up there. SB is no Sunday River by far. I could believe that Les wants to do it, but I have a very hard time believing he has enough money. Sure, he could buy it, but expand it? No way.

In the 90s I could see this happening, but funding ski area expansion is difficult these days.

capt'n · Feb 13, 2016

Jully said:
All the more reason not to buy two resorts up there. SB is no Sunday River by far. I could believe that Les wants to do it, but I have a very hard time believing he has enough money. Sure, he could buy it, but expand it? No way.

In the 90s I could see this happening, but funding ski area expansion is difficult these days.

Hope Less sticks to his guns and continues his development spin with the Balsams. I can only hope and pray SB won't turn into a sunday river, SB is a way better product IMHO. SB sustainability depends on living within your means philosophy, nice alternative to Iceloaf. "Build it and they will come" doesn't always work in the long haul
Good powder day on the midcoast today!

Smellytele · Feb 13, 2016

Jully said:
All the more reason not to buy two resorts up there. SB is no Sunday River by far. .

Right - Saddleback's terrain is 10x better than Sunday River's.

xwhaler · Feb 13, 2016

Smellytele said:
Right - Saddleback's terrain is 10x better than Sunday River's.

This goes w/o saying

Jully · Feb 13, 2016

Smellytele said:
Right - Saddleback's terrain is 10x better than Sunday River's.

Definitely! Doesn't mean it lends itself to Otten expansion plans or business models.

Smellytele · Feb 14, 2016

Jully said:
Definitely! Doesn't mean it lends itself to Otten expansion plans or business models.

I gotcha now

tipsdown · Feb 16, 2016

joshua segal said:
I've been asked not to give details. I can say that all names and corporations that I know of have been mentioned on this thread. However, there have also been a lot of names and corporations mentioned on this thread that I can only imagine are someone's WAG with no basis in fact.

Condo owners are still hoping for March.

Just to clarify, Joshua Segal's info is mostly in line with what I know. There may still be a pulse but clearly there have been snags with the sale...I do know they are working with another buyer(s)...They would not be if a deal with Buyer A was a slam dunk. I have also heard they have not shut the door on the season, which seems crazy, but also sounds like a pipe dream.....Hopefully things work out soon....

delco714 · Feb 28, 2016

Been quiet here..

Saddleback

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

New member

Member

Member

New member

Member

New member

Active member

New member

Well-known member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Member

New member

Similar threads