Learn any lessons from this winter?

fbrissette · Mar 24, 2016

cdskier said:
Yea, I have no plans to change it since I'm not having issues. My dad did have problems with pre-releasing on powder days with his powder skis a year or two ago. We didn't realize that due to his age the DIN charts say to use a lower DIN. We had it bumped back up and now he doesn't have issues anymore.

Having just reached 50, I am well aware of this decrease in recommended DIN settings. Interestingly enough, this is based on bone density that becomes lower as you get older. Thus, older people are believed to be able to withstand less torque.

More recent research has showed that bone density become lower mostly because older folks become less active. Hence, there is no real reason why an active 50 year old should reduce his DIN setting.

cdskier · Mar 24, 2016

fbrissette said:
Having just reached 50, I am well aware of this decrease in recommended DIN settings. Interestingly enough, this is based on bone density that becomes lower as you get older. Thus, older people are believed to be able to withstand less torque.

More recent research has showed that bone density become lower mostly because older folks become less active. Hence, there is no real reason why an active 50 year old should reduce his DIN setting.

My dad is 65...he never really noticed the issue until he got his new powder skis though. His all mountain carvers were ok even with the lower DIN. My cousin used to work in ski shops so my dad mentioned the problem to him and the first thing he said was to raise the DIN because you ski more like a 45 year old than a 65 year old anyway. :smile:

bdfreetuna · Mar 24, 2016

Thanks fbrissette. :beer:

Los · Mar 24, 2016

I learned that it will be best to significantly lower my expectations each and every year going forward. As someone else on the board pointed out, if you set your expectations low enough, you'll never be disappointed.

Tin · Mar 24, 2016

fbrissette said:
Having just reached 50, I am well aware of this decrease in recommended DIN settings. Interestingly enough, this is based on bone density that becomes lower as you get older. Thus, older people are believed to be able to withstand less torque.

More recent research has showed that bone density become lower mostly because older folks become less active. Hence, there is no real reason why an active 50 year old should reduce his DIN setting.

Does bone density really matter or is it soft tissue strength? Specifically the ligaments of the knee, as I think we have all heard more soft tissue knee injuries than breaks or fractures.

I do agree that more activity is generally better. However, an interesting confound to this is medications. An issue I have, and I'm sure many older individuals have, is that certain medications can really compromise bone density (as simple as antacids) and can REALLY destroy ligaments (prednisone, antibiotics, cholesterol medications, etc). In the past year I have torn major ligaments in my thumb, elbow, and shoulder (that should have NEVER torn) because of the medications I'm on.

Will staying active keep you healthy, absolutely. But there is a lot more than just activity level that goes into joint/bone strength and DIN settings IMO. Out of fear I keep mine set at 8, hopefully just low enough to save a knee but strong enough to withstand some heavy snow turns.

Bumpsis · Mar 24, 2016

Tin said:
Does bone density really matter or is it soft tissue strength? Specifically the ligaments of the knee, as I think we have all heard more soft tissue knee injuries than breaks or fractures.

I do agree that more activity is generally better. However, an interesting confound to this is medications. An issue I have, and I'm sure many older individuals have, is that certain medications can really compromise bone density (as simple as antacids) and can REALLY destroy ligaments (prednisone, antibiotics, cholesterol medications, etc). In the past year I have torn major ligaments in my thumb, elbow, and shoulder (that should have NEVER torn) because of the medications I'm on.

Will staying active keep you healthy, absolutely. But there is a lot more than just activity level that goes into joint/bone strength and DIN settings IMO. Out of fear I keep mine set at 8, hopefully just low enough to save a knee but strong enough to withstand some heavy snow turns.

Interesting point about the effects of meds on connective tissue (tendons, ligaments). A microtear in a ligament can side line you for a long time and you don't even need to be all that old. I've been struggling with on and off issues with various tendon injuries ever since I hit my 48 year (which was a long time, at this point). An Achilles tendon tear can sideline you for 6 months or longer.
I never injured any of my knee supporting ligaments (the same type of connective tissue), but I do fear it. So, I keep my DIN lower than the charts say it should be.

I still love to ski fast and hard but much rather blow out of a binding than blow a tendon.
When buying a binding, I'll spend extra money for a higher quality and more travel before release. I'm a big fan of Look and happy to see that they decided to come back to the Pivot model and offer it in lower DIN settings. I'm a relative lightweight.
On the other hand, I just about never fall and can't remember when I actually did "pre"-released.

Tin · Mar 24, 2016

Bumpsis said:
Interesting point about the effects of meds on connective tissue (tendons, ligaments). A microtear in a ligament can side line you for a long time and you don't even need to be all that old. I've been struggling with on and off issues with various tendon injuries ever since I hit my 48 year (which was a long time, at this point). An Achilles tendon tear can sideline you for 6 months or longer.

I'll take a break over a sprain any day. A broke ankle takes a few weeks to heal, a sprained can be felt for years after.

An Achilles? Ouch! I think I might take an ACL and rebuild over Achilles. Just a nasty injury that scares me (ever since the scene in Pet Sematary when the baby slices the guy's when he gets out of bed).

drjeff · Mar 24, 2016

Never got the whole DIN cranking thing!! I'm a big guy (6'3" pushing 240lbs with my ski gear on, 332mm boot sole length, 3+ level skier who skis everything and charges the hill more runs than not!!

I keep my DIN at shop recommended settings - an 8.5 currently, and haven't upped my shop set DIN in probably 20 years. I could probably count the number of pre releases over those 20 years - roughly 850 ski days, on 1 hand and still have a couple of fingers left.

I stand by the statement that if you exhibit proper technique at all times, you're not going to pre release, even in the most of extreme conditions short of super elite racers, super elite free skiers and super elite park skiers.

The other 99.8% of the ski world should just work on their technique a bit, all the while helping decrease the risk of injury!!

deadheadskier · Mar 24, 2016

drjeff said:
Never got the whole DIN cranking thing!! I'm a big guy (6'3" pushing 240lbs with my ski gear on, 332mm boot sole length, 3+ level skier who skis everything and charges the hill more runs than not!!

I keep my DIN at shop recommended settings - an 8.5 currently, and haven't upped my shop set DIN in probably 20 years. I could probably count the number of pre releases over those 20 years - roughly 850 ski days, on 1 hand and still have a couple of fingers left.

I stand by the statement that if you exhibit proper technique at all times, you're not going to pre release, even in the most of extreme conditions short of super elite racers, super elite free skiers and super elite park skiers.

The other 99.8% of the ski world should just work on their technique a bit, all the while helping decrease the risk of injury!!

This isn't some bravado thing that I put my bindings in the 10-11 range despite being a half foot shorter and weighing 30ish pounds less than you Doctor Jeff.

I can count the number of pre-releases on one hand in a season if I leave it at 9.

And your comment of " as long as you're exhibiting proper technique at all times you won't pre-release unless you're pro" wreaks a little snobbish to me.

jack97 · Mar 25, 2016

DIN settings appear to have non linear step sizes or granularity given the factors for weight, height, sole length and the type of skier. I run it across a calculator just to get another set of data than the settings from the shop

http://www.mechanicsofsport.com/skiing/equipment/bindings/din-calculator.html

That said, bindings have different designs, toe and heel pieces have more or less elastic travel. I have skied in the bumps or crud with bindings that have good elastic travel and I've pre released. A couple of years ago, I finally crank the dial upward and I haven't had a problem since.

Not Sure · Mar 25, 2016

jack97 said:
DIN settings appear to have non linear step sizes or granularity given the factors for weight, height, sole length and the type of skier. I run it across a calculator just to get another set of data than the settings from the shop

http://www.mechanicsofsport.com/skiing/equipment/bindings/din-calculator.html

That said, bindings have different designs, toe and heel pieces have more or less elastic travel. I have skied in the bumps or crud with bindings that have good elastic travel and I've pre released. A couple of years ago, I finally crank the dial upward and I haven't had a problem since.

Nice Calculator but has me as "Undefined" 3+ ,160lbs , 5'5",298mm. Ski with an 8 Din , no problems new bindings . Lots with old bindings. Boots also make a difference as mentioned. Also make sure you don't have any snow under your boots or stones imbedded in AFD . Not a problem for first runs but after a P break or lunch. Skis sit in sun snow melts and works in then ices up.

SIKSKIER · Mar 25, 2016

I tend to lean towards the opposite of fbrissette.I much rather risk an injury not releasing than an unwanted release at high speed.I've known 2 expert skiers at Cannon that died from a prerelease.The last,Mark was a top racer and went into the tram cutback from Rocket at speed and his downhill ski released leaving him to head right into the trees.I'll err on the side on a non prerelease.

Edd · Mar 25, 2016

Preferences clearly are influenced by experiences. I tore an ACL, I'm positive, because a binding did not release. I'm 175 lbs, 5' 11". I don't ski with a lot of power. When I hit bumps or trees, I try to ski with a light touch, which isn't right or wrong, just how I ski. The required DIN setting, I think, is much more complicated than it appears.

fbrissette · Mar 25, 2016

SIKSKIER said:
I tend to lean towards the opposite of fbrissette.I much rather risk an injury not releasing than an unwanted release at high speed.I've known 2 expert skiers at Cannon that died from a prerelease.The last,Mark was a top racer and went into the tram cutback from Rocket at speed and his downhill ski released leaving him to head right into the trees.I'll err on the side on a non prerelease.

It should always be a personal risk analysis. There is no right or wrong answer. I don't ski at 60 mph close to trees. However, when skiing Tucks (it's been a while), I cranked my bindings from 8.5 to 11.

The few times I have done steep icy traverses in Europe above crevasses or rocks, I lock my dynafit bindings in (meaning they essentially cannot release).

At Jay, I stick to the steep and rocky runs, woods and backcountry. Relatively low speed, relatively high risk of hitting hidden rocks, stumps and branches. In such conditions, I feel more comfortable with a lower din setting. It's all about risk perception.

Not Sure · Mar 25, 2016

fbrissette said:
However, when skiing Tucks (it's been a while), I cranked my bindings from 8.5 to 11.

The few times I have done steep icy traverses in Europe above crevasses or rocks, I lock my dynafit bindings in (meaning they essentially cannot release).

.

A pre release in Tucks 2/3 way up on an icy day is what prompted me to do away with my last bindings.....Still hurts thinking about it. With Tuna on that one!

Brad J · Mar 25, 2016

I am 61 165lbs and 5'10" and ski with a 8 din, I do not ski a high speeds, but life bumps and woods . I tore my ACL in 1998 in bumps at relatively slow speed backseat bad recovery fall where my downhill ski went right and he rest of me went left and forward. The ligament snapped before the binding released. My feeling is that it was the way I fell was the problem not the binding. I also am vey carefull about lining up the boot in the binding and no snow or ice on boot or in binding. That being said IMO pre release is more of operator error than fault of the binding. I just think setting them on facture to prevent a pre release is the wrong way to go.

steamboat1 · Mar 25, 2016

Still haven't learned a thing.

JimG. · Mar 25, 2016

I should have been skiing in Quebec every year; that is going to be a yearly prerogative from now on.

They had snowfall well below average too this season but they still got tons of snow. Great skiing!

Terry · Mar 26, 2016

Just go anyways. There will be something that you will enjoy about the day. Better than sitting home being bummed out about the weather. It is always good to ski in less than stellar conditions to work on your technique. A good friend of mine who was an instructor for years purposely takes us down trails with poor conditions so that we will learn to ski them.

Cannonball · Mar 26, 2016

JimG. said:
I should have been skiing in Quebec every year; that is going to be a yearly prerogative from now on.

This! I will absolutely be up there every year now. I can't believe it took me this long to check it out. Tremblant on the Maxx Pass will help too.

Learn any lessons from this winter?

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Moderator

New member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

New member

Moderator

Well-known member

New member

Similar threads