Haystack / Hermitage news

Jully · Mar 30, 2018

njdiver85 said:
My guess is that the Hermitage will languish in bankruptcy proceedings that will take it well through this time next year or longer, at which point some wealthy members will be able to buy this thing back for pennies on the dollar. Suspect that this is the long term strategy at this point. Sadly, all the local vendors, property owners, contractors and the like, who are all owed large sums of money, will loose out on recovering most of what is owed them.

Not super familiar with bankruptcy proceedings myself, but would the 6 pack ever be sold as a result of it? That is a lot of cash there. Would be a nice upgrade for some other NE mountain haha.

mbedle · Mar 30, 2018

Has the club actually filed for bankruptcy yet? Guess that will be coming soon, but I doubt they will be filling for Chapter 7.

WJenness · Mar 30, 2018

Jully said:
Not super familiar with bankruptcy proceedings myself, but would the 6 pack ever be sold as a result of it? That is a lot of cash there. Would be a nice upgrade for some other NE mountain haha.

(note: I am not a lawyer, I just married one)

Could happen... But if they have a separate LLC that only owns the six pack, that could prevent something like that.

And I wouldn't be surprised if things are set up that way.

-w

mbedle · Mar 30, 2018

Checked online and it doesn't seem to be under a separate LLC, unless them used a unique name I couldn't find. Was interesting to see all of the Hermitage LLC are listed as terminated.

bigbob · Mar 30, 2018

mbedle said:
Checked online and it doesn't seem to be under a separate LLC, unless them used a unique name I couldn't find. Was interesting to see all of the Hermitage LLC are listed as terminated.

They may not of paid their annual filing fee to the state last year

mbedle · Mar 30, 2018

bigbob said:
They may not of paid their annual filing fee to the state last year

I figured it had to do something with them not paying fees or their business taxes.

Killingtime · Mar 30, 2018

mbedle said:
I figured it had to do something with them not paying fees or their business taxes.

NYS will terminate your corporate charter if you fail to pay your franchise fees for two consecutive years under something called dissolution by proclamation. Guessing Vermont has something similar. Organizations that cant pay their food vendors, water bills or sales tax are certainly not going to pay their state franchise fees either. This thing is toast. Let the bankruptcy lawyers figure it out now.

Jully · Mar 30, 2018

So it sounds like there is a real possibility of the club losing the 6 pack during the whole bankruptcy process? I wonder how much that would impact the club's resale value back to the members if they do indeed want to buy it back after bankruptcy? No base to summit lift and a couple million needed to even get a used fixed grip installed would be a big deterrent for me if I were a member.

No clue how important that is for the members that actually ski there though.

VTKilarney · Mar 30, 2018

Smellytele said:
Or Golf this summer?

Golf this summer is definitely questionable. They are going to need to dump some money into the course this spring to get it up and running. I am not holding my breath.

sull1102 · Mar 30, 2018

Jully said:
So it sounds like there is a real possibility of the club losing the 6 pack during the whole bankruptcy process? I wonder how much that would impact the club's resale value back to the members if they do indeed want to buy it back after bankruptcy? No base to summit lift and a couple million needed to even get a used fixed grip installed would be a big deterrent for me if I were a member.

No clue how important that is for the members that actually ski there though.

Completely agree, brought this up on another forum. That lift is the only we know the club actually paid for. It's got the bare minimum on it use wise with no summer ops and three short seasons of weekend only operation, heated seats, and oh there's a buyer with a need no more than 4 miles away.

That being said I think this kills the club and the whole luxury vibe. Suddenly you're a midsized mountain with no summit access, but 3/4 of the main faceand Witches would still be reachable.

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mbedle · Mar 30, 2018

I'm not sure I agree with all you that this place is going to go into Chapter 7 bankruptcy. You have a lot of very financially well off people and companies that own real estate at this place and what nothing more than to keep the club, golf and skiing going. If anything, I see a potential ownership transfer to a new organization (owned by the members). That would provide relief from Barnes, who has personal ties to some of the liens (not just through a LLC). combine that with a Chapter 11 and a valid business plan, thing could continue on as normal. Albeit at maybe not such a high end way.

prsboogie · Mar 30, 2018

sull1102 said:
That White Knight would now need north of $8 million just to clean up the back taxes and negotiate some kind of deal with the bank. Then there's the other lawsuits from smaller parties but even those are worth a million bucks in most cases. In all it looks like it would take $30 million to get the place back debt free.

Initially I was thinking you could get a white knight or two together and sell the six pack to anyone for $6 million, maybe more since it has the absolute bare minimum weekends only no summer hours on it. It has been reported the club owns the lift outright so that's straight cash.

This could be a bargain for Attitash to finally fix the summit lift issue!!

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deadheadskier · Mar 30, 2018

prsboogie said:
This could be a bargain for Attitash to finally fix the summit lift issue!!

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Hell yeah!! F it. Haystack can go Nelsap for all I care if Tash gets a high speed summit chair

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Glenn · Mar 31, 2018

mbedle said:
I'm not sure I agree with all you that this place is going to go into Chapter 7 bankruptcy. You have a lot of very financially well off people and companies that own real estate at this place and what nothing more than to keep the club, golf and skiing going. If anything, I see a potential ownership transfer to a new organization (owned by the members). That would provide relief from Barnes, who has personal ties to some of the liens (not just through a LLC). combine that with a Chapter 11 and a valid business plan, thing could continue on as normal. Albeit at maybe not such a high end way.

Well stated.

sull1102 · Apr 1, 2018

Shut down for a 3rd time in three weeks by the state for taxes... Members told they can come get their stuff from the Clubhouse despite there being no employees around. I would think it wise to empty out the lockers and get all your belongings before they get wrapped up in court.

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drjeff · Apr 1, 2018

The reality for the next 6 weeks roughly (the usual timeframe until their golf course typically opens for the season) one won't be able to likely grasp the intentions of will or won't it reopen...

Pretty sure just the Court proceedings in the near future won't allow for things to be fully shut down for good (if that's what eventually happens) or some type of members buy out/take over to be passed and implemented, given that it's going into a period of little activity for the club.

On an aside note, nice snow squall up the street at Mount Snow this morning and they're still almost 100% open!

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VTKilarney · Apr 1, 2018

drjeff said:
The reality for the next 6 weeks roughly (the usual timeframe until their golf course typically opens for the season) one won't be able to likely grasp the intentions of will or won't it reopen...

Sure you can. Just look at what they are doing (or not doing) to the golf course to get it ready to open.

Since only a fool would buy in now, whoever takes it over better have a business plan that doesn’t depend on much of an increase in membership. Although if I lived closer I would be tempted to gamble on a cut rate membership if new management offered one. I probably wouldn’t but it would be tempting.

icecoast1 · Apr 1, 2018

VTKilarney said:
Sure you can. Just look at what they are doing (or not doing) to the golf course to get it ready to open.

Since only a fool would buy in now, whoever takes it over better have a business plan that doesn’t depend on much of an increase in membership. Although if I lived closer I would be tempted to gamble on a cut rate membership if new management offered one. I probably wouldn’t but it would be tempting.

Don't buy up half the town with money you don't have, don't tick off the state so they drag out your permitting process stalling all real estate development, charge a more realistic dues fee... there's no reason that place can't succeed as a private ski area with the right management but they need to be more focused on the actual ski area and not Barnesville which clearly the current ownership had no intention of ever doing. Barnes needs to do everybody a favor and just leave, and sooner rather than later so whoever takes over the mountain after him has something resembling a ski area left before the bank takes over and liquidates everything for pennies on the dollar

Glenn · Apr 2, 2018

Wow. Crazy as more details come to light. It'll be really interesting to see what takes place next. Ideally, someone will buy it and run the place correctly. But the amount of defaults and debt just keeps piling up.

ThinkSnow · Apr 3, 2018

http://www.benningtonbanner.com/stories/suit-filed-against-club-founder,536000

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