Haystack / Hermitage news

sull1102 · Nov 3, 2018

machski said:
Probably could but the bigger question is could they get granted access to the lift to do the work. Absolute mess and the group that owns the lift are club owners. No way will they sell that lift of there is any chance in hell of rescuing the club. So yes, there is a very large chance that lift sits for years unused.

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I think as someone else asked earlier, these members are not going to stick around long. They have already abandoned this season in many ways and headed for Snow/Stratton from their Club area homes. Don't forget that vote not long ago where a whole bunch voted against the increase in dues that would've helped the place reopen. These are very high up financial sector people in a lot of cases and they will recognize the value dropping the longer it sits. It's also not like we are talking about legendary terrain that is to die for, I mean the place is nice and all, but that type of terrain is found almost anywhere in New England. And you would still have the Poma Triples sitting around as a backup plan.

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drjeff · Nov 3, 2018

sull1102 said:
I think as someone else asked earlier, these members are not going to stick around long. They have already abandoned this season in many ways and headed for Snow/Stratton from their Club area homes. Don't forget that vote not long ago where a whole bunch voted against the increase in dues that would've helped the place reopen. These are very high up financial sector people in a lot of cases and they will recognize the value dropping the longer it sits. It's also not like we are talking about legendary terrain that is to die for, I mean the place is nice and all, but that type of terrain is found almost anywhere in New England. And you would still have the Poma Triples sitting around as a backup plan.

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From my good golfing buddie friend, who is one of the biggest volume real estate brokers in the Mount Snow/Hermitage area for the last decade plus..... There's essentially none of the recently (last 5yrs) built Hermitage built units on the market....

And from my insider racer parent perspective, there is basically no Hermitage core racer families leaving the Deerfield Valley....

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sull1102 · Nov 3, 2018

drjeff said:
From my good golfing buddie friend, who is one of the biggest volume real estate brokers in the Mount Snow/Hermitage area for the last decade plus..... There's essentially none of the recently (last 5yrs) built Hermitage built units on the market....

And from my insider racer parent perspective, there is basically no Hermitage core racer families leaving the Deerfield Valley....

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I wouldn't expect then to go beyond Mount Snow, maybe go to Stratton, but Snow is just so close that is pretty easy for them to just drive on up and spend the extra on preferred parking and call it a day. Plus the Peak Pass pricing is extremely competitive to boot. I would however expect those that don't own property and we're looking at a future second home to look elsewhere.

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machski · Nov 4, 2018

sull1102 said:
I wouldn't expect then to go beyond Mount Snow, maybe go to Stratton, but Snow is just so close that is pretty easy for them to just drive on up and spend the extra on preferred parking and call it a day. Plus the Peak Pass pricing is extremely competitive to boot. I would however expect those that don't own property and we're looking at a future second home to look elsewhere.

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"Plus the Peak Pass pricing is extremely competitive to boot.". Seriously on this quote? The Peaks Pricing creates crowding at Snow which is what folks at the Hermitage paid to avoid. Do you think they will just come over because pass prices are cheap? No way in hell. Will they ski there this year? Probably some, but one midwinter weekend will have them investigating new ways to reopen the club. I'm sure Snow is even busier now than it was before Hermitage opened.

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sull1102 · Nov 4, 2018

machski said:
"Plus the Peak Pass pricing is extremely competitive to boot.". Seriously on this quote? The Peaks Pricing creates crowding at Snow which is what folks at the Hermitage paid to avoid. Do you think they will just come over because pass prices are cheap? No way in hell. Will they ski there this year? Probably some, but one midwinter weekend will have them investigating new ways to reopen the club. I'm sure Snow is even busier now than it was before Hermitage opened.

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Yes I am serious. In the ski industry the Peak Pass is very competitive with the other season pass offerings out there from Vail, Alterra, Killington, etc. Actually Snow's crowding that mention would seem to back me up here. I think they will come over because the house is five-ten minutes away and their private hill isn't opening. Not really sure where you think they will find less crowds on weekends in Vermont that isn't going to involve looking for a new second home(which as DrJeff pointed out it seems like those homeowners aren't selling and moving out yet). Snow is as busy as it was at it's peaks years and years ago, but the trajectory has them going right past that number in the next couple years here.

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MEtoVTSkier · Nov 4, 2018

sull1102 said:
Yes I am serious. In the ski industry the Peak Pass is very competitive with the other season pass offerings out there from Vail, Alterra, Killington, etc. Actually Snow's crowding that mention would seem to back me up here. I think they will come over because the house is five-ten minutes away and their private hill isn't opening. Not really sure where you think they will find less crowds on weekends in Vermont that isn't going to involve looking for a new second home(which as DrJeff pointed out it seems like those homeowners aren't selling and moving out yet). Snow is as busy as it was at it's peaks years and years ago, but the trajectory has them going right past that number in the next couple years here.

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Pretty sure Owners at the Hermitage aren't that overly concerned with the price of passes...

:roll:

machski · Nov 4, 2018

sull1102 said:
Yes I am serious. In the ski industry the Peak Pass is very competitive with the other season pass offerings out there from Vail, Alterra, Killington, etc. Actually Snow's crowding that mention would seem to back me up here. I think they will come over because the house is five-ten minutes away and their private hill isn't opening. Not really sure where you think they will find less crowds on weekends in Vermont that isn't going to involve looking for a new second home(which as DrJeff pointed out it seems like those homeowners aren't selling and moving out yet). Snow is as busy as it was at it's peaks years and years ago, but the trajectory has them going right past that number in the next couple years here.

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You obviously from this post do not understand the Hermitage crowd. Airlines are a good value, even first class but they fly in the back of my jets for the last decade which is considerably more expensive why? The privacy, not dealing with crowds at the terminals and the exclusivity. Yes, there are those that will pay for those things and if it skips a beat, won't go run to a relatively less expensive product if the experience is inferior. And it's not just Peaks, it's all the ski operators. Stowe may still have draw if this thing stays shut depending on those folks travels out west or not.

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Jully · Nov 4, 2018

machski said:
You obviously from this post do not understand the Hermitage crowd. Airlines are a good value, even first class but they fly in the back of my jets for the last decade which is considerably more expensive why? The privacy, not dealing with crowds at the terminals and the exclusivity. Yes, there are those that will pay for those things and if it skips a beat, won't go run to a relatively less expensive product if the experience is inferior. And it's not just Peaks, it's all the ski operators. Stowe may still have draw if this thing stays shut depending on those folks travels out west or not.

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I definitely agree with you about the price and exclusivity Factor. I think the larger choice for most of the owners this winter is not going to be how to get the best value, but whether or not they want to use their property.

If they are primarily concerned with skiing, then they're going to go out west or potentially somewhere in the East with the best luxury skiing experience, such as Stowe. Price will not be a factor. If they like and want to use their home or like the community that exists around Hermitage and in the Dover area, they'll go to Snow or Stratton. I don't think pass price will drive that decision at all, it'll be how/if they want to use their home.

sull1102 · Nov 4, 2018

machski said:
You obviously from this post do not understand the Hermitage crowd. Airlines are a good value, even first class but they fly in the back of my jets for the last decade which is considerably more expensive why? The privacy, not dealing with crowds at the terminals and the exclusivity. Yes, there are those that will pay for those things and if it skips a beat, won't go run to a relatively less expensive product if the experience is inferior. And it's not just Peaks, it's all the ski operators. Stowe may still have draw if this thing stays shut depending on those folks travels out west or not.

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Seeing as I know many members, skied there 10+ days a in 15/16, and then worked at the place after that I think you might be assuming a whole hell of a lot here buddy. "My jets" eesh you're a bit pretentious aren't Cha? Do tell me where do you think these members are going to find a place with that privacy? Also you are overestimating the income of many members, 80% are not private jet crowds on your plane. They are first class it business class people and some not there, this was there big purchase. People on your jets would go west or Yellowstone

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sull1102 · Nov 4, 2018

Jully said:
I definitely agree with you about the price and exclusivity Factor. I think the larger choice for most of the owners this winter is not going to be how to get the best value, but whether or not they want to use their property.

If they are primarily concerned with skiing, then they're going to go out west or potentially somewhere in the East with the best luxury skiing experience, such as Stowe. Price will not be a factor. If they like and want to use their home or like the community that exists around Hermitage and in the Dover area, they'll go to Snow or Stratton. I don't think pass price will drive that decision at all, it'll be how/if they want to use their home.

For most it's all about the convenience. Sending the family up a day or two early and going up Thursday night or Friday. They also loved that boy's club feel, it wasn't about the skiing for most, more about send the kids out to ski while you and the wife drink and then at night let em run around having a good time. I always relate it to a cruise ship in that sense, you knew everyone in the grounds so it was a safe bubble. As for price of Peak Pass I'm telling in general not just for the rich.

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drjeff · Nov 4, 2018

I highly, highly doubt that there will be a sudden sizeable amount of property listings in the general Hermitage Club area hitting the market as people who joined/built/bought there bail out and head to another part of VT/New England for their regular week in and week out skiing fix.

I highly expect to see many faces in the line for the Bluebird at Mount Snow, with Peak Passes on their coats, and in some of the various apres establishments on Mount Snow property, who I haven't seen on the mountain at Mount Snow as much the last few years, at least while the Hermitage isn't spinning it's lifts.

A significant portion of the Hermitage members are just families who love the sport and enjoy spending a decent number of days on the hill per season but with bank accounts larger than most, but as has already been pointed out, the majority aren't at the MEGA rich, private jet owning level of wealth. Maybe net jets charter level on a multi times a year level, but not private Gulfstream ownership level.

Most members will be skiing in Southern VT as their primary location this season, just likely about 2 miles up the street than last season

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Jully · Nov 4, 2018

sull1102 said:
For most it's all about the convenience. Sending the family up a day or two early and going up Thursday night or Friday. They also loved that boy's club feel, it wasn't about the skiing for most, more about send the kids out to ski while you and the wife drink and then at night let em run around having a good time. I always relate it to a cruise ship in that sense, you knew everyone in the grounds so it was a safe bubble. As for price of Peak Pass I'm telling in general not just for the rich.

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I figured that the overall vibe and feel of the club/area would be more important than the true skiing. The proximity of Snow and the fact that it sounds like a lot of members know people at Snow already would drive a big crew up the road this year. The fact that the Peak Pass doesn't cost 2k per person just makes that decision even easier too.

I'm curious of what they'll think of Snow versus Hermitage. It'll be a really different skiing experience than the club.

x10003q · Nov 4, 2018

Mt Snow was always the safety net for purchasing property at the Hermitage. The property risk was minimal. Yeah, it sucks that their own private mountain is not running, but it is not like they now have to drive 30 miles for skiing. They still only have to drive a couple of miles to ski at a fully operating 600 acre ski area.

machski · Nov 4, 2018

sull1102 said:
For most it's all about the convenience. Sending the family up a day or two early and going up Thursday night or Friday. They also loved that boy's club feel, it wasn't about the skiing for most, more about send the kids out to ski while you and the wife drink and then at night let em run around having a good time. I always relate it to a cruise ship in that sense, you knew everyone in the grounds so it was a safe bubble. As for price of Peak Pass I'm telling in general not just for the rich.

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I'm sure many will stay local this year and Snow is as close as it gets. Hopefully some will venture elsewhere (maybe give Magic some love). I just can't fathom they will just watch lifts, etc get sold off of they have any other avenues of saving Hermitage for later.

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WWF-VT · Nov 4, 2018

drjeff said:
I highly, highly doubt that there will be a sudden sizeable amount of property listings in the general Hermitage Club area hitting the market as people who joined/built/bought there bail out and head to another part of VT/New England for their regular week in and week out skiing fix.

I highly expect to see many faces in the line for the Bluebird at Mount Snow, with Peak Passes on their coats, and in some of the various apres establishments on Mount Snow property, who I haven't seen on the mountain at Mount Snow as much the last few years, at least while the Hermitage isn't spinning it's lifts.

A significant portion of the Hermitage members are just families who love the sport and enjoy spending a decent number of days on the hill per season but with bank accounts larger than most, but as has already been pointed out, the majority aren't at the MEGA rich, private jet owning level of wealth. Maybe net jets charter level on a multi times a year level, but not private Gulfstream ownership level.

Most members will be skiing in Southern VT as their primary location this season, just likely about 2 miles up the street than last season

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I heard that most of the Hermitage owners like to hike for turns and are secretly thrilled in anticipation of no operating lifts this season

Equinox · Nov 4, 2018

Regardless of what options these folks choose, it's still sad to see a perfectly good ski area sit idle. It's even more frustrating to know that it was the fault of poor financial decisions. I'll never have the kind of money that lets me have a second home in ski country, but if I did and was in the position of these folks, I'd be fighting tooth and nail to find a way to make it work. I wish them all the best.

thetrailboss · Nov 16, 2018

https://www.reformer.com/stories/receiver-outlines-winter-plan-for-hermitage-club,556340

sull1102 · Nov 17, 2018

Wow, what happened to the whole loan thing and possibly opening for Christmas? This is really a crushing blow for the place.

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Glenn · Nov 17, 2018

Unfortunately, not a lot of good news out of there lately. There have been a few stories in the Reformer in the last few weeks.

ghughes20 · Nov 17, 2018

Glenn said:
Unfortunately, not a lot of good news out of there lately. There have been a few stories in the Reformer in the last few weeks.

It sounds like little hope to get things running this season. Very unfortunate for the owners. It seemed like there was some hope during the summer that they might figure out something for this season. Seems less likely each day.

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