Haystack / Hermitage news

thetrailboss · Jan 31, 2020

Glenn said:
More bidders and now an offer of $8.4M on the table:

https://www.dvalnews.com/news/more-hermitage-club-buyers-emerge

$8.4 million?! Wow. That seems high for a used lift. Edit: that is for ALL the assets at the mountain...so snowmaking equipment, other items, etc.

And if Haystack does in fact go NELSAP, this would only be the SECOND resort with an HS lift that has closed. The record before Ascutney was that NO mountain with a HS lift had closed.

Glenn · Jan 31, 2020

thetrailboss said:
$8.4 million?! Wow. That seems high for a used lift.

I think that's for the entire property...

machski · Jan 31, 2020

A few of us did some rough research on Barnstormer and it currently covers about 300 feet vertical less than Barker (basically the same as Lincoln at Loon and a base to Bullies at SL). Fully loaded, Barnstormer was only designed for 41 chairs on the uphill side. With the added vertical on the 3 listed possible lines, that would reduce the amount of chairs loaded without a bigger drive/transmission if asked to lift more vertical. So, assuming this info is accurate, those 3 options are probably not really playable.

That said, Seven Brother's would work just fine for this lift. Someone asked Loon on the NEP group page about the Kanc4 flipping over to Seven Bros and Loon said not necessarily. They are looking at a few options for Seven Bros, I have a feeling Barnstormer is one of them. The other usable option given current lift profile is replace Timberline with this. Extending the base down to Bullie's is probably still well within the design spec of the lift.

Guess we'll have to wait and see if Boyne wins the bid.

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thetrailboss · Jan 31, 2020

Glenn said:
I think that's for the entire property...

Yeah I caught that. All the "assets", which I interpret as lifts, groomers, snowmaking equipment, etc. I imagine that the bidder is a reseller of such equipment.

If this like a typical liquidation auction, then the auctioneer will take BOTH bids for the entire operation and for the individual assets and then compare what nets the creditor the most money before determining if to sell it piecemeal or as a whole.

And, unfortunately, when Barnes came on the scene and proposed this crazy resort I was one of the skeptical ones and thought that it would end up like this. He got pretty far though before it blew up. I'm sad to see another ski area on the ropes.

GregoryIsaacs · Jan 31, 2020

Ive always wondered about if the next owner tried turning Haystack into a limited member of EPIC.

Putting a 5,10 day restriction or even "season pass holders only" limit may help offset the fact that the mountain is not currently set up for a fully public operation (ie the clubhouse).

icecoast1 · Jan 31, 2020

thetrailboss said:
Yeah I caught that. All the "assets", which I interpret as lifts, groomers, snowmaking equipment, etc. I imagine that the bidder is a reseller of such equipment.

If this like a typical liquidation auction, then the auctioneer will take BOTH bids for the entire operation and for the individual assets and then compare what nets the creditor the most money before determining if to sell it piecemeal or as a whole.

And, unfortunately, when Barnes came on the scene and proposed this crazy resort I was one of the skeptical ones and thought that it would end up like this. He got pretty far though before it blew up. I'm sad to see another ski area on the ropes.

Both new bids are from committees of former members that say they want to operate the ski area. That's why they're bidding on everything as a whole and not individually.

icecoast1 · Jan 31, 2020

GregoryIsaacs said:
Ive always wondered about if the next owner tried turning Haystack into a limited member of EPIC.

Putting a 5,10 day restriction or even "season pass holders only" limit may help offset the fact that the mountain is not currently set up for a fully public operation (ie the clubhouse).

The only way Haystack will ever be epic is if Vail decides they want to clear the impossible hurdle of buying it and connecting it with Mount Snow

Smellytele · Jan 31, 2020

thetrailboss said:
Boy, they just did a media blitz advertising the new 8-Pack. If they were to walk that back there would be an uprising.

Well I thought they were talking about a six to replace another lift.

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thetrailboss · Jan 31, 2020

Smellytele said:
Well I thought they were talking about a six to replace another lift.

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You know, someone else said that they are looking to replace the other HSQ. Maybe that is their thought.

drjeff · Feb 4, 2020

https://www.reformer.com/stories/he...9_vpXpwCY_QZOiY8TaqCzyUE7W4vT2H4k_A3rXhke1oOw

Up to 8.4 Million combined offer for the property and the Bubble 6 now. Still about 3 weeks left in the established bidding time. Multiple groups now making offers, although the referenced Greg Samuels offer, with the stipulation that "I am am born royalty as such special consideration is required" almost sounds like Greg Samuels could be a new pseudonym for Jim Barnes....:blink:

icecoast1 · Feb 4, 2020

drjeff said:
https://www.reformer.com/stories/he...9_vpXpwCY_QZOiY8TaqCzyUE7W4vT2H4k_A3rXhke1oOw

Up to 8.4 Million combined offer for the property and the Bubble 6 now. Still about 3 weeks left in the established bidding time. Multiple groups now making offers, although the referenced Greg Samuels offer, with the stipulation that "I am am born royalty as such special consideration is required" almost sounds like Greg Samuels could be a new pseudonym for Jim Barnes....:blink:

Haha, that certainly does sound an awful lot like Jim Barnes

machski · Feb 4, 2020

Smellytele said:
Well I thought they were talking about a six to replace another lift.

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Loon's plan is the 8 pack at Kanc, upgrading both North Peak and Lincoln HSQ's (assuming that means 6 packs) and upgrading 7 Bros (forest service proposal was to reuse Kanc4 but Loon now says that is not in stone and looking at several options for 7 Bros). Also, the Gondola is on the list of upgrades too, but that will be the biggest project on the list since the current Octagon Base building will need to be heavily modified/rebuilt for what I would imagine would be an 8 seater Gondi.

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Smellytele · Feb 4, 2020

machski said:
Loon's plan is the 8 pack at Kanc, upgrading both North Peak and Lincoln HSQ's (assuming that means 6 packs) and upgrading 7 Bros (forest service proposal was to reuse Kanc4 but Loon now says that is not in stone and looking at several options for 7 Bros). Also, the Gondola is on the list of upgrades too, but that will be the biggest project on the list since the current Octagon Base building will need to be heavily modified/rebuilt for what I would imagine would be an 8 seater Gondi.

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Didn't they just get new cabins for the Gondola and they are now going to upgrade it?

EPB · Feb 4, 2020

machski said:
Loon's plan is ... upgrading both North Peak and Lincoln HSQ's (assuming that means 6 packs)...

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For what it's worth, I haven't been to Loon since either the Lincoln Peak or North Peak quads were installed, but skilifts.org (links below) makes it seem as though both lifts operate significantly below their respective design capacities. Does anyone know if they added chairs to these two lifts over the years? I suspect that they were waiting to add more terrain before they increased uphill capacity. The "upgrades" to these lifts could amount to just buying more chairs for them.

Lincoln Peak:
http://www.skilifts.org/old/images/resort_images/nh-loon/lincoln/lincoln.htm

As of posting, had 95 chairs (~1950 people per hour [ppm] capacity) vs. design of 139 chairs (2800 ppm capacity)

North Peak:
http://www.skilifts.org/old/images/resort_images/nh-loon/northpeak/northpeak.html

Initially had 73 chairs (1700 ppm capacity) vs. design of 120 chairs (2800 ppm capacity)

Jcb890 · Feb 5, 2020

Why would they want/build an 8-person chair at Loon? That seems like overkill considering the acreage and trail widths. Sounds like a nightmare to be honest.

thetrailboss · Feb 5, 2020

Smellytele said:
Didn't they just get new cabins for the Gondola and they are now going to upgrade it?

If it is like Steamboat, they will upgrade it piecemeal over the years until it is completely new.

Method9455 · Feb 5, 2020

So to summarize it sounds like 3 legit bids for the lifts + property:
Bruce Waller: $8.4M
Hermitage Club Member Group: $8.25M
AW Realty: $8M

The first 2 bids were not for the whole package:
Rainmaker Mountain LLC: $4M just for the property
Boyne: $3.5M just for the lift

Looking to collect all bids by 2/20 and make a decision on 2/25

skef · Feb 23, 2020

From Today's New York Times Business section (p. eight):

Looks to value the Barnstormer at 8.06M - 4.29M = 3.77M.

MEtoVTSkier · Feb 23, 2020

And Boyne bid 3.6

icecoast1 · Feb 24, 2020

skef said:
From Today's New York Times Business section (p. eight):
View attachment 26374
Looks to value the Barnstormer at 8.06M - 4.29M = 3.77M.

How did a lift that cost 7 million new and is several years old increase in value?

Haystack / Hermitage news

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