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  1. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by sull1102 View Post
    Should have been clear, I was speaking strictly about staff to run the ski area and maybe unlock the bathrooms and turn the heat and lights on inside the clubhouse at a member only resort that does not need to even have a front desk person if they don't want. Having worked there I know a little bit about what the operation entails and they could also cut Friday operations and hurt maybe 5 people. I was going to get into the bar and food staff etc but that's a different ballgame altogether and I'm not nearly as familiar. It is also all extra. We're talking about a one lift medium sized mountain running on the barest of bones being paid for out of pocket by members so they can have a private escape from Mount Snow crowds. I'd even say that if the weather started off bad they would not even attempt to open until Christmas break and would be very quick to pull the plug altogether.

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    It doesn't matter. You can't run a ski area with just 12 people even with zero F&B. You need at least 4 people to run a lift alone. Snowmaking another 4, patrol needs 5-6 people. That leaves zero for maintenance or anything else.

    Labor laws and OSHA requirements alone make this pretty much an impossibility. This isn't some backyard rope tow, and not some ski bums for clientele either.
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  2. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    It doesn't matter. You can't run a ski area with just 12 people even with zero F&B. You need at least 4 people to run a lift alone. Snowmaking another 4, patrol needs 5-6 people. That leaves zero for maintenance or anything else.

    Labor laws and OSHA requirements alone make this pretty much an impossibility. This isn't some backyard rope tow, and not some ski bums for clientele either.
    you can definitely run a one lift ski area with less than 12ppl.


  3. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by drjeff View Post
    *If* from this ski area management Monday morning hypothetical quarterbacking we're doing here, one is talking purely, 100% from a mountain ops standpoint, and not a food and beverage and/or guest services standpoint, and you're talking about just snowmaking, grooming and lift ops, with a resort operating schedule that is typically just 3 days a week (holiday weeks excluded) and just running their 6 pack, and maybe the witches triple as well, a crew of 12 or thereabouts might be able to pull it off.

    With the right 12, and remember that a few of their core ops people who essentially are "Jack's of all trades" are still employed to maintain the facilities now for future perspective buyers, the ops side could work. There were multiple times last year I read on a snowmakers FB group page, one of their lead snowmakers wishing that he had more than a crew of 3 per shift, so their snowmaking operations, in their fairly modern system that doesn't have a ton of capacity *could* be run very lean. Grooming, 1 maybe 2 cats, or more likely 1 shift with 2 cats or 2 cats with 1 shift, could likely handle the grooming needs of a mountain of that size (especially if the lower mountain trails and the trails that lead back to the Hermitage Inn aren't in play) under most weather conditions. Add in a few for lift maintenance (and I'm not necessarily putting the folks who would operate the lifts in this crew, just the maintenance crews who are out doing line checks before 1st chair and responding when a sensor up on a tower goes off mid day), and the number a crew of 12 for PURELY Mtn Ops, not food and beverage and guest services needs, might very well be able to pull it off

    Regardless of the #, which I think would needs to be higher, even getting 12 good employees to work there given the circumstances will be pretty difficult to impossible. You need good experienced people in these positions that know what they're doing, not jack of all trades but master of none people. Mountains that are financially stable and can consistently make payroll have a hard enough time finding good help let alone one like Haystack.

  4. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by mtl1076 View Post
    you can definitely run a one lift ski area with less than 12ppl.
    That's probably double the amount of a few small place I've been to out west. No snowmaking helps though. At one place in Idaho the owner was finishing up grooming when we got there, then worked various job all day. Get a couple volunteers and you're even better.

    I think Bear Paw in MT was only paying the 3 lift attendants. Volunteer ski patrol (maybe 4 guys) was cooking/selling food and there were few people working the ticket booth throughout the day. And this great guy named Dave was running the place...

    https://www.havredailynews.com/story...aw/502361.html

  5. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytrem View Post
    That's probably double the amount of a few small place I've been to out west. No snowmaking helps though. At one place in Idaho the owner was finishing up grooming when we got there, then worked various job all day. Get a couple volunteers and you're even better.

    I think Bear Paw in MT was only paying the 3 lift attendants. Volunteer ski patrol (maybe 4 guys) was cooking/selling food and there were few people working the ticket booth throughout the day. And this great guy named Dave was running the place...

    https://www.havredailynews.com/story...aw/502361.html
    The people who ski there are not going to volunteer to work there.
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  6. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by Smellytele View Post
    The people who ski there are not going to volunteer to work there.
    I'm not so sure of that. I think a good percentage of them would be happy to. Do you actually know any of the members, or are you just making assumptions? I'm not sure a lot of people would want to work the kitchen or scrub toilets. But working the register or ticket checking, things like that, I think they would have no problem with. Wouldn't need a lot fo hours from each person if each family chipped in time. And you could no doubt pick up a few volunteer patrollers if you offer free skiing for their family.

  7. #557
    I think you could get a couple members kids some weekend seasonal work maybe answering phones and such, but being a private club there's no ticket sales going on and the liftie can check passes but they probably recognize most.

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  8. #558
    So, let me get this straight. I'm going to pay $90,950 to sign up + $9500 a year for my family and I have to volunteer to work a certain amount of hours at a resort that will have limited snowmaking and grooming on bland terrain, that's only open 3 days a week and holiday weeks.

    Where do I sign up?

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  9. #559
    Quote Originally Posted by Smellytele View Post
    The people who ski there are not going to volunteer to work there.
    Knowing a number of families who are members there with kids in the racing program around the age of my kids, I feel 99% certain that they could get some families to volunteer some time for the club if needed

    I know this may come as a shock to many on AZ, but at their core, there are a bunch of Hermitage members who are just as passionate about this sport we all love dearly, as many members of this board. Their bank accounts may be quite different, but their love of the sport, and seeing their family and friends share their love for the sport is quite similar in many cases

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  10. #560
    Quote Originally Posted by deadheadskier View Post
    So, let me get this straight. I'm going to pay $90,950 to sign up + $9500 a year for my family and I have to volunteer to work a certain amount of hours at a resort that will have limited snowmaking and grooming on bland terrain, that's only open 3 days a week and holiday weeks.

    Where do I sign up?
    The thing is, people are already signed up. So now they can get nothing for their 30k-80k that they already paid. Or possibly work a few hours, which they might actually enjoy the socialization part, and get to ski there this year. Probably not happening anyway though. Anyway, seems like the volunteers I've run in to at the clubs and non-profits are typically enjoying their "work" time more than paid staff. No reason it would be different there.

    Another problem the club has is a lot of people signed up at around half the current initiation fee and half the current annual fee. So while you do have a lot of people that can easily handle the $9500 plus an extra $10000 this year. You also have a bunch that either can't afford it or don't think it's worth the price.

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