BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Raise em' Jay.
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Stenger and Quiros Ousted from Management of Jay Peak and Burke
- Thread starter thetrailboss
- Start date
drjeff
Well-known member
If you've got a state agency, especially in a state the size (economically) of VT that essentially per these allegations "missed" the misuse of roughly 200 MILLION dollars, then you better damn well believe that Shumlin and crew are going to do everything to distance themselves from this gross negligence!!!
You can also believe, the the folks at Peak Resorts are drinking heavily tonight as they know that the $53 million they have in their EB-5 escrow account that in theory is all in Montpelier know under the same oversight is going to be looked at not with scrutiny or even a microscope, but with the equivalent of the Hubble telescope, that their phase I EB-5 project is going to take much longer than anticipated, and they're likely not going to have EB-5 funds available as an option for phase II of their master plan
This gross fraud by Quiros and Stenger may very well lead to the termination of the EB-5 program nationally
This. I know that Shumlin has spun this as, "my team is so awesome we found this," but let's be honest here, Vermont's business reputation for EB-5 investments is now complete toast. As one commentator on WCAX tonight put it, "Vermont was the squeaky clean group EB-5 investment plans". Guess what? This was a $300 million Ponzi scheme. In VERMONT.
Vermont, unfortunately, is no stranger to this shit: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...-fraud-case/mKEzHrsSBiQMcYPRIHlAxO/story.html
Some of you might have heard of that one. Very eerily similar. Charismatic, talented, trusted LOCAL figure matches up with a shadowy outside figure and raises a TON of money for a crazy idea and then finds out that the outside figure has taken all the money and run. Vermont also has almost monthly reports of embezzlement, fraud, stealing, etc. of public officials (town clerks, nonprofit employees, etc). Unfortunately, it seems that a few bad folks know that they can take advantage of Vermonters who are either too caring or too dumb to understand what is going on. And here we have a State Government completely naive to it all while foreign investors were led to believe that Vermont's governmental oversight was so awesome and everyone gets along so well and trusts each other. Guess what? That ain't so. Oh yeah, and someone last week stole a bunch of maple syrup from a farm...presumably to pay for a heroin addiction. I don't even recognize my home state.
wakenbacon
New member
it's about time
Raise em' Jay.
More like Raise 'em Q.
It has been proposed that Burke's annual pond skim next season shall be entitled the "Ponzi Skim."
In fact, I seem to remember Mr. Ponzi making an appearance in the Burke thread a few years back in response to the one or two "Kool Aid" drinkers who said that all was well in Q-land. This one is for Masskier and Big Wave Dave. Sorry guys:
For some people, their true character shows right through when they get close to a pile of cash and an open door. People with character do the right thing, people who are wired all wrong and care only for themselves give in to the temptation and don't care who or what they ruin int heir wake.
Bernie Maddoff, Bernie Stenger and Bernie Quiros didn't care how many lives they ruin/negatively impact or how many dusty holes they leave in rural Vermont towns.
IMHO, there is no way Jr. wasn't aware of what was going on to some degree. It will be curious to see to what extent Jr. knew as things unfold over the next several months etc.
Q's.......Pathetic poser wannabe big shots pretending to be jet setters and they are nothing but scam artists.....
Bernie Maddoff, Bernie Stenger and Bernie Quiros didn't care how many lives they ruin/negatively impact or how many dusty holes they leave in rural Vermont towns.
IMHO, there is no way Jr. wasn't aware of what was going on to some degree. It will be curious to see to what extent Jr. knew as things unfold over the next several months etc.
Q's.......Pathetic poser wannabe big shots pretending to be jet setters and they are nothing but scam artists.....
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Agreed. If Stenger got sucked into this he had a LOT of opportunities to make things right. But he didn't. It's one of the biggest disappointments about this whole thing.
I guess it's no secret why the CFO who raised red flags is referred to in the complaint as the "former CFO."
I guess it's no secret why the CFO who raised red flags is referred to in the complaint as the "former CFO."
VTKilarney
Well-known member
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Yet another akward politician photo.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
LONGBOARDR
Member
Agreed
If you read the civil complaints they include terms such as mail fraud, interstate commerce. not a lawyer but i believe they are associated with federal criminal statutes.
So many locals already hurting... there was a rumor that Jay would shut down for a month following ski season. hopefully the dust will settle and we can all move ahead and focus on what we love
I can't wrap my head around what Bill was thinking
As for Quiros imagine the irony of him in prison, being a former prison guard at Spandau
Read my post above about Mac Parker I'm pretty sure that if he could answer he would tell you that he just presumed that everything would be fine and everyone would be paid back. No harm done.
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from_the_NEK
Active member
My guess with the shut down is that the EB5 cash flow had become too regulated for them to use it to make a big upcoming payment (aka Ponzi payment) that was upcoming to the Tram House Lodge investors. By shutting down the mountain and laying off everyone during the slowest month of the year, they could take all of the money that would have gone to employees and put it into the investor payment. Thereby keeping everyone generally quiet for another year.
I think they were starting to get desperate when their cash cow began to dry up.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
There are two things that boggle my mind about these allegations:
1) How did they think that they could ever get away with it? Let's be honest, if they got 15% of the construction costs and did NOTHING else, they would have been very rich. And it all would have been above board. But misappropriating $200 million????? Maybe it was a situation of starting small and adding to the problem in small steps. Who knows.
2) Where is all of the money? Quiros allegedly took $50 million just for his personal use, but they couldn't pay Pomerleau for the property in Newport? That makes no sense to me.
I have ALWAYS maintained that the Phase 1 investors would never see their balloon payment. I think it's safe to say that this is true.
I just can't see any way out of this other than a sale of the resorts. The investors better get ready for a negative rate of return.
The biggest losers among the investors are those that will never get their green cards. I can't imagine that the 100+ investors in AnC Bio have any chance at all of getting a green card, and they will be lucky to recoup mere pennies on the dollar.
1) How did they think that they could ever get away with it? Let's be honest, if they got 15% of the construction costs and did NOTHING else, they would have been very rich. And it all would have been above board. But misappropriating $200 million????? Maybe it was a situation of starting small and adding to the problem in small steps. Who knows.
2) Where is all of the money? Quiros allegedly took $50 million just for his personal use, but they couldn't pay Pomerleau for the property in Newport? That makes no sense to me.
I have ALWAYS maintained that the Phase 1 investors would never see their balloon payment. I think it's safe to say that this is true.
I just can't see any way out of this other than a sale of the resorts. The investors better get ready for a negative rate of return.
The biggest losers among the investors are those that will never get their green cards. I can't imagine that the 100+ investors in AnC Bio have any chance at all of getting a green card, and they will be lucky to recoup mere pennies on the dollar.
LONGBOARDR
Member
sounds logical
There is also an issue with the tram apparently. It sounds like it needs well upwards of a million in upgrades to meet state standards to run next season. I would hope money goes towards that
not much good news here in our town unfortunately
praying for an epic winter to exorcise the evil
There is also an issue with the tram apparently. It sounds like it needs well upwards of a million in upgrades to meet state standards to run next season. I would hope money goes towards that
not much good news here in our town unfortunately
praying for an epic winter to exorcise the evil
VTKilarney
Well-known member
One theory I had after reading the SEC complaint was that this plan was hatched prior to the purchase of Jay Peak, and the reason Quiros was able to purchase Jay Peak is because he and Stenger made an offer that the MSSI couldn't refuse.
I think this may be spot on now that I went back and watched the PBS piece on Jay Peak. In that piece, the reporter stated that food and beverage sales were now $10 million annually, which is double what the entire resort took in for gross receipts prior to EB-5.
So you have a ski resort that has gross receipts of about $5 million annually. Quiros and Stenger paid more than $25 million to purchase the resort. This means that they paid in excess of five times gross RECEIPTS. Forget about gross earnings - we are talking receipts. Is it just me or was this a very high purchase price? If it was, that suggests that they knew that they could milk EB-5 from the very beginning.
By way of comparison, Peak Resorts just purchased Hunter Mountain for $36.8 million in 2015 dollars. That makes $25 million for Jay Peak in 2008 seem like a VERY expensive purchase price.
I think this may be spot on now that I went back and watched the PBS piece on Jay Peak. In that piece, the reporter stated that food and beverage sales were now $10 million annually, which is double what the entire resort took in for gross receipts prior to EB-5.
So you have a ski resort that has gross receipts of about $5 million annually. Quiros and Stenger paid more than $25 million to purchase the resort. This means that they paid in excess of five times gross RECEIPTS. Forget about gross earnings - we are talking receipts. Is it just me or was this a very high purchase price? If it was, that suggests that they knew that they could milk EB-5 from the very beginning.
By way of comparison, Peak Resorts just purchased Hunter Mountain for $36.8 million in 2015 dollars. That makes $25 million for Jay Peak in 2008 seem like a VERY expensive purchase price.
Basic back of the napkin math for commercial real estate with a cap rate of 10% would mean PROFITS of $2.5M to justify the $25M purchase price.......
Yeah, sorry. Daddy spent the $1 mill on his personal taxes. :roll: That's two EB-5 investors, but hell, they created a few jobs at the accounting firm that ran his taxes.
from_the_NEK
Active member
The Tram was just overhauled not too long ago. What could need that kind of $$ in upgrades to meet standards?
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