The NEW Magic Mountain - Page 155

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  1. #1541
    Quote Originally Posted by deadheadskier View Post
    Where are there examples of Magic publicly trashing other areas in their marketing? I'm not seeing it on their website. I follow them on Facebook and nothing has ever really stood out.

    All I see is Magic differentiating themselves from the competition with the uniqueness of their product. The only thing I see in a casual review of their website is a slight ribbing of Killington for a couple of former K employees joining the Magic team. You really have to look for that though. I'm sure 99% of visitors to their site won't even find the "hmmmmm" comment. If that makes you not want to ski there because they are being mean to Killington, well then you might be a bit uptight.

    Is it just ski forums some feel that Magic puts down other areas? Even that is a bit of a stretch.

    I mean maybe on forums there's a little bit of ribbing towards others

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    There are no examples because we don't. Never have. Well, except of course where I stated above that Magic has superior powder skiing terrain and leaves more fresh out there for the customers- which is nothing new and hardly trashing anyone. Everybody knows those things. Heck, all of the Stratton managers that live on Magic Circle will straight up tell you the same exact thing, Strat BANKS on that. If they are looking for groomers, trail count or a village we happily send them across the valley- where we also have many friends that work and play. There is 0 animosity between mountains around here, and a little something for everyone.

    I don't get where people think we are "trashing" other mountains by pointing out our very obvious differentiation (which we HAVE to do in order to not get lost in the ocean of competition among peers with massive marketing budgets), and are the only mountain I'm aware of that actually limits day ticket sales to preserve the uncrowded slopes we regularly laud the virtues of... So I really don't understand the idea that we are out to gouge people for every penny of profit- that's simply not the case and never was or will be. We actually give up a ton just to try to get locals and those who have a hard time affording it otherwise venues of access... I understand how the internet works, though. Someone will always think that because we are real people that we are subpar in our efforts, and I'm ok with that too. We go WAY above and beyond to promote transparency and there's 150+ pages of answers and communication here to prove it. The people who understand what we are doing and the tiiiiiiny niche we are hand-chiseling out for ourselves in this space dominated by giants will continue to appreciate it, and that's all I can really work for effectively.



    I can only hope that enough people "get it" to balance out the ones starving for outrage enough to feel slighted by our marketing schtick or promotional deals' limitations or restrictions. Whatever harm felt there is certainly unintended- but one might even wonder if it's unavoidable once you reach a certain level of popularity or success though. Transparency and communication will always be a double edged sword and we will try to continue to communicate things as we can, but this whole "Magic gets away with stuff" is a load of bull that I absolutely reserve the right to take issue with. As seen above, we can't even get away with speaking candidly and realistically without dozens of posts complaining. It's really quite ridiculous once suing people gets brought up, and nobody but me thinks that is hilariously out of line. We will keep posting, but I will certainly be dialing it back- not that I personally feel some kind of way about what was said but I'm increasingly concerned that there's nothing I can say and I don't have time to back-and-forth with people when they will never quite understand what I'm saying anyways. Cheers to everybody for caring though, the snow is coming soon!

  2. #1542
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeB-Z View Post
    It shouldn't be about putting down other places to try to lift yourself up

    This does not get it right in my opinion. From what I have seen Magic has great relationships with other mountains. Okemo gave or sold them some terrain park equipment. Stratton was enthusiastic about selling Magic the new lift. Magic is not even really a competitor with the industry giants and they clearly have no ill will toward Magic, rather the opposite.

    Magic is rebuilding a run down business. Many people still think it is closed! In order to get noticed on a budget, it makes noise and has a cheeky attitude. Also, it seeks to differentiate itself with what it has. Terrain, less traffic and old school feel.

    Very much this. Thank you good sir

  3. #1543

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    Pointing out that Stratton, mount snow and okemo are the corporate groomer kings = Trashing?

    Who is sensitive again?

    I love having all the different options in So VT.

    Anyway, I hope the Magic management team keeps posting here.

  4. #1544
    Quote Originally Posted by bdfreetuna View Post
    I don't see Magic trying to compete directly with Stratton/Bromley/Snow. Why should they, it's harder terrain, less grooming, more woods, overall less amenities and you go there to ski and not for other reasons.

    Magic's biggest competition is probably Mad River Glen and maybe some sleeper areas like Pico where people enjoy getting a deal and skiing woods and some steeps. The advantage to Magic is shorter drive, probably lower prices, and the fact that if the snow is good, it's just as good as NoVT (in some cases better).

    Actually I think what they are doing is carving a niche and the whole "Throwback" pricing and vibe is part of that.

    I work in marketing and I'm not concerned for them if they continue course as such. I would be concerned if they started trying to compete directly with Stratton and Snow.

    Stratton and Snow don't get SKI THE EAST kids on powder days. Just saying. And if you've been to Bromley lately you know they have some work to do to maintain their clientele, a much worse situation to be in than Magic IMO which is rising.
    Magic closest comparable resorts would be MRG and Pico. Magic's competition is most certainly Bromley amongst others. Stratton not so much, they are a true juggernaut especially with the resources Alterra bring to the table. This region does not have enough skiers to think that almost every single skier is not a potential customer(and why would you not look at it that way when rebuilding an almost dead business?You are creating a whole new product so even if you are just borrowing people from that mountain and this mountain on a Sunday after they ski there season pass mountain the day before that is a huge win). Even the families from the Upper East Side going to the Stratton mansion every weekend with the Range Rover are potential customers. You get a few of them they tell a few friends etc etc. With the introduction of the new Green Lift, the magic carpet, plus that safe small town vibe Magic is really looking like a great family mountain in the years to come.

    Snow most certainly does get the SKI THE EAST kids on powder days, one of the great things about Carinthia and all the effort that goes into the best park in the East. I would be one of these SKI THE EAST kids. Not all of us jump in the car and drive the 4-6 hours up to Jay whenever it dumps.

    Do Work, perhaps you missed where I said it is hilarious for people to even bring up suing over these things?

    Always funny to see how quickly things can escalate when you start talking about a lightning rod like Magic on here or over on SJ. The critics are harsh and often completely unrealistic and the defenders go bananas defending the place, there is no other mountain in world like it lol.
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  5. #1545
    Quote Originally Posted by sull1102 View Post
    Magic closest comparable resorts would be MRG and Pico. Magic's competition is most certainly Bromley amongst others. Stratton not so much, they are a true juggernaut especially with the resources Alterra bring to the table.

    Snow most certainly does get the SKI THE EAST kids on powder days, one of the great things about Carinthia and all the effort that goes into the best park in the East. I would be one of these SKI THE EAST kids. Not all of us jump in the car and drive the 4-6 hours up to Jay whenever it dumps.
    #1 Park skiing and riding is a completely different sport and irrelevant to my interests. I get that it's important to some people but I do appreciate that Mount Snow keeps the saggy pants crowd in one area

    #2 Speaking as someone who's driving up I-91 in western mass.... Bromley / Stratton / Snow are *never* alternatives to Magic for me. Although they may offer better skiing on some occasions and I will take advantage of that. It's all about the snow conditions, what kind of skiing I want to do that day, and how far I want to drive. So I consider "comparable mountains" (I guess we agree Pico fits the bill somewhat) their competition on a day-to-day basis. Last year during the March mega-storm, for example, I went to Magic for Day 1 and Mad River Glen for Day 2. Those were the places I wanted to ski in epic conditions and I made it work.

    Last year I also went to Bromley one day but it was the day after a decent snowfall, and I chose nice grooming over choppy leftovers. Bromley delivered very well in that case. Stratton I probably will not go back to unless it's midweek and I have essentially a free ticket. Not my style over there.

    #3 I understand my skiing habits are probably out of the norm

  6. #1546
    Meh, the fact there's even a "debate" here seems to suggest that it's likely a pennywise-and-pound-foolish decision on Magic's part from a business perspective to change pricing if there's a Thursday dump.

    Especially given this is a rare, midweek event, rather than an ongoing, repeatable occurrence where there'd be a significant financial impact. Unless the delta in revenue from these rare Thursday walk-ups is truly enormous (which I doubt), I'd say the smarter decision from a marketing perspective is to just leave the Thursday price at the original level and keep whatever minority of customers you're annoying, happy instead. No, the customer isn't "always right", but they usually at least have a legitimate point.
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  7. #1547
    ^ I have been there on a couple pow thursdays the last few years and they were absolutely packed, literally at or beyond capacity for their lifts, lodge and parking.

    I think days like this DO help the operators out substantially especially after a warm stretch or some other weather related BS. Black Line Tavern packed to the brim all day plus long lift lines, I can totally understand why they want to charge full price.

    Maybe with more lifts running it alters the equation.

  8. #1548
    Quote Originally Posted by sull1102 View Post
    there is no other mountain in world like it lol.
    This is true.

    Passion.

  9. #1549
    Quote Originally Posted by Do Work View Post
    I can only hope that enough people "get it" to balance out the ones starving for outrage enough to feel slighted by our marketing schtick or promotional deals' limitations or restrictions.

    That's internet gold - the "starving for outrage" part. Hope you don't mind if I use that someday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Do Work View Post
    We will keep posting, but I will certainly be dialing it back- not that I personally feel some kind of way about what was said but I'm increasingly concerned that there's nothing I can say and I don't have time to back-and-forth with people when they will never quite understand what I'm saying anyways. Cheers to everybody for caring though, the snow is coming soon!
    Up the road at Killington and Kzone we had a Director of Communications years ago that would come on and try to address almost every issue. There were numerous antagonists on the board that would make sport of cutting him up. He seriously lacked the humor, insight, straightforwardness and backbone to do a good job of it. Win Smith and Steve Wright are two that have done a good job of it at their respective resorts, with very different styles. Mike Solimano now comes on Kzone occasionally to set the record straight when some issue goes to hyper drive. He doesn't participate often but he does so with clarity.

    Candid communication is valuable, drawn out spats with folks you can't please is not. So my 2 cents is dial back the frequency if you need to. Dial back the need to respond to every jab, your actions speak louder over the long run than a few internet posts. Just don't dial back the clarity or responsiveness.

  10. #1550
    Quote Originally Posted by sull1102 View Post

    Do Work, perhaps you missed where I said it is hilarious for people to even bring up suing over these things?

    Always funny to see how quickly things can escalate when you start talking about a lightning rod like Magic on here or over on SJ. The critics are harsh and often completely unrealistic and the defenders go bananas defending the place, there is no other mountain in world like it lol.
    To be fair to Do Work, he comes on here not super frequently and sees a bunch of posts, some more inflammatory than others, complaining about Magic. I don't blame him if he misses/misattributes who said what complaint about Magic. You may be quoted, but I think it safe to assume you are not supposed to be the sole recipient of his frustration. He's speaking to a crowd and responding to multiple posts at once.

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