The NEW Magic Mountain

The haul rope was no surprise, by definition, since they ordered one already. When they ran the rope originally is was clear it was at the end of its useful life, so this was known from 2 years ago. The only question was how long would it last? And they couldn't replace the old rope until the towers were fixed, so a moot point until now. But at least they saw it coming and were proactive enough to buy one and get it on site. That said it certainly puts Black running this winter at risk, which would be a major bummer.

While its disappointing the pond was not approved, as long as it is this week they'll be ok. Its not even thanksgiving so they haven't missed any of their normal snowmaking window yet, though they have lost time to test everything. Luckily the pond fills fast, even without the added water from pumping from Thompsonburg Brook. They just need enough water to start by the next cold snap post Thanksgiving.

slatham said:

When they ran the rope originally is was clear it was at the end of its useful life, so this was known from 2 years ago.

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If that’s the case the Monday morning quarterback in me says they should never have run the old rope in the first place

Seems to me they thought they could get a year or two out of it (had the lift been engineered correctly and operating on time). If I could defer a 6 figure haul rope and eat the cost of an extra splice I probably would.

Newpylong said:

Seems to me they thought they could get a year or two out of it (had the lift been engineered correctly and operating on time). If I could defer a 6 figure haul rope and eat the cost of an extra splice I probably would.

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Since you would be the most likely to know this answer, how hard is it to book a splice of a rope? I assume it is a bit of a lead time given the few certified for this type of work.

Exactly @urungus . Camden’s new-to-them summit lift was a million bucks way back when. The Black is longer, taller, over harsher terrain, with years of inflation in between. If you’re putting in that big of an investment I honestly don’t understand why you would even attempt to put on the old rope. It was original to the original lift. I’m sure the timing of Stratton’s HSQ install was partially based on that rope’s remaining life.

At worst, it just shows the mountain is willing to cut costs at all costs. At best it shows they are chewing off more than they have the capital to afford. Either way … not a good look for the mountain.

I feel like they can’t get a lucky break….

thetrailboss said:

I feel like they can’t get a lucky break….

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Unfortunately a common theme seems to be that they do rely on luck to get something done.

My personal preference is formulating a plan where the variables are accounted for so that luck really doesn't factor into the operations side of things.

The reality is that when it comes to luck and skiing/riding most of it should be if the customer is lucky enough to get mother nature to give you a powder day or a great weather day, and from an ops side, luck should be mainly confinded to mother nature giving the snowmakers temps to the colder wet bulb side or the lift ops crew temps a few degrees either way to prevent a de-icing situation.

With mother nature seemingly over the last few years making resort operations more challenging with sometimes shorter snowmaking windows or more rain/freeze/recovery situations over the course of a season and especially prior to the all important Christmas to MLK Weekend roughly 3 week stretch, having a fully operational, reliable infrastructure system, where luck only involves the temps and type of precipitation that mother nature brings, isn't a bad operations goal, for any ski area.

Again, I sincerely hope that Magic pulls it all together and mother nature is very kind to them. Geoff and his crew are working incredibly hard through many logistical issues to get this great vision for Magic that they have (and so many would love to see happen) become reality. Sometimes though that means that one may need to choose to take "smaller bites" at a time, since if one objectively looks at things 2 days before Thanksgiving, they currently don't have a summit lift that they can run, and a snowmaking reservoir that may still be awaiting final approval for completion so they can fill it.

May we all be able to give some Thanks to Magic on Thursday when we sit down to Thanksgiving Dinner that they've been able to get some items done and will be ready to operate in a typical fashion in the next couple of weeks

I do go back to my original statement: even if there are ruffled feathers and delays, these are massive projects that have and will benefit their customers when completed. Someone is shelling out big bucks to put these lifts and snowmaking improvements in and I'm sorry Magic faithful, it's far above and beyond your business. The investors must trust the team enough.

Everyone wants things done on time but I think the alternative is worse.

Are we at the point yet where it would have just been worth having Dopp or Poma put a new lift in from the start? Obviously hindsight but maybe lessons can be learned from this debacle when it comes to relocating used lifts going forward.

icecoast1 said:

Are we at the point yet where it would have just been worth having Dopp or Poma put a new lift in from the start? Obviously hindsight but maybe lessons can be learned from this debacle when it comes to relocating used lifts going forward.

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Not sure if it's as much the reclocating of the lift that was the issue, or the crew doing the relocating of the lift that has been a definite factor in the timeframe this has taken. And I get that the cost factor as well as the availability of the lift near by when Stratton took it out to install the HSQ snowbowl lift played into it, and then of course there was the pandemic during the middle years of the Black installation saga.

icecoast1 said:

Are we at the point yet where it would have just been worth having Dopp or Poma put a new lift in from the start? Obviously hindsight but maybe lessons can be learned from this debacle when it comes to relocating used lifts going forward.

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From what I understand from good sources, Dopp and Poma were not an option - they would not do it. Too many new installs, and if they are doing an old lift install its for a customer that's been buying a bunch of new lifts.

Also, some of the delays, notably COVID, Dopp and Poma would have been impacted too. Whether they would have avoided the rock ledge issues, or the concrete delay, etc nobody can say. I would however hazard a guess they would have avoided the engineering issue. But its a moot point.......

Not to always defend (I am admittedly "too close") lets not forget what HAS been done over these past 6 years.

slatham said:

From what I understand from good sources, Dopp and Poma were not an option - they would not do it. Too many new installs, and if they are doing an old lift install its for a customer that's been buying a bunch of new lifts.

Also, some of the delays, notably COVID, Dopp and Poma would have been impacted too. Whether they would have avoided the rock ledge issues, or the concrete delay, etc nobody can say. I would however hazard a guess they would have avoided the engineering issue. But its a moot point.......

Not to always defend (I am admittedly "too close") lets not forget what HAS been done over these past 6 years.

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icecoast's question was about Dopp/Poma putting in a brand NEW lift, not trying to have them do the relocation of the used lift. Not sure how much money this used lift will end up costing when all is said and done, although I'm still thinking it is likely less than a brand new lift would have been.

the ongoing issues and the unreliable low elevation snow caused me to not buy a magic sundays pass this season. two years ago i got major value out of it, probably spent 6 sundays at magic, and then also used indy days on two saturdays to make full weekends. last year, i think i used 1 indy day and 2 sundays. too much of a crapshoot. i can see myself buying it again when black is running and the snowmaking issues are resolved. i love to support them, love their vibe, and LOVE skiing serious terrain on sundays that is just under 4 hours from home. getting home at 6:30 is so nice.

Whether it is this season or next, there will be many substantial upgrades that have come to fruition. Expanded snowmaking, larger reservoir, new deck, Green, Red, and Black lifts plus the rope tow.
We can armchair quarterback and nitpick all we want (I am guilty of that myself) but in the end it will be long lasting, impactful upgrades that all who use the mountain will benefit from.
What a long strange trip its been…

Doo doo happens.

ThatGuy said:

Whether it is this season or next, there will be many substantial upgrades that have come to fruition. Expanded snowmaking, larger reservoir, new deck, Green, Red, and Black lifts plus the rope tow.
We can armchair quarterback and nitpick all we want (I am guilty of that myself) but in the end it will be long lasting, impactful upgrades that all who use the mountain will benefit from.
What a long strange trip its been…

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I think you said better than I did.

cdskier said:

icecoast's question was about Dopp/Poma putting in a brand NEW lift, not trying to have them do the relocation of the used lift. Not sure how much money this used lift will end up costing when all is said and done, although I'm still thinking it is likely less than a brand new lift would have been.

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Don’t forget the ultimately misguided attempts to try and fix the old black lift . i Believe that ended up costing in the multiple hundreds of thousands or at least 100k+

at the end of the day you do see progress like @ThatGuy guy mentioned, but it seems like they will be heading into another winter without a reliable summit lift. Forget about redundancy. It’s pretty obvious based on pfisters track record with magic and the amount of work that still needs to be done that Black isn’t spinning this winter.

red has given a yeomans effort over the past 5 or so years but it always seems like they are a c unt hair away from that lift going down too, like last winter.

As someone with a house nearby I just hope they make it. This area needs a successful Magic for sure.

It aint easy resurrecting's a dead ski area. It seems like they have the right people willing to try and work with what they have to make it work. Get the black running and the snow blowing and everyone will forget about this. in the meantime, I'm sure its infinitely more frustrating for them than us.

jimmywilson69 said:

It aint easy resurrecting's a dead ski area. It seems like they have the right people willing to try and work with what they have to make it work. Get the black running and the snow blowing and everyone will forget about this. in the meantime, I'm sure its infinitely more frustrating for them than us.

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totally. I think it's apparent that the owners and management want to create the best possible experience that they can but have limiting resources. It's gotta be frustrating for them.

cdskier said:

icecoast's question was about Dopp/Poma putting in a brand NEW lift, not trying to have them do the relocation of the used lift. Not sure how much money this used lift will end up costing when all is said and done, although I'm still thinking it is likely less than a brand new lift would have been.

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This. Just this. A new lift? On Magic budget.

No chance. Not right approach at this moment in time….

Who quoted the $1mm price of lift from Stratton. Is that fact or estimate? More latter than former.

Install obviously has been higher…than estimate.