The NEW Magic Mountain

Wizard chute is way harder than the rest of the trail. If there are going to be any groomed runs accessable off Wizard - and I'd argue that eventually having a groomed expert trail is a good thing - that becomes the #1 trouble spot over there.

Someone who is, say, practicing bumps on Talisman maybe isn't ready for bumps with no margin for error on Wizard Chute.

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IceEidolon said:

Wizard chute is way harder than the rest of the trail. If there are going to be any groomed runs accessable off Wizard - and I'd argue that eventually having a groomed expert trail is a good thing - that becomes the #1 trouble spot over there.

Someone who is, say, practicing bumps on Talisman maybe isn't ready for bumps with no margin for error on Wizard Chute.

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Talisman is typically groomed once they put a base down (last year it was "down the middle", previous years skiers left).

I would expect once the new Black Quad is in Wizard would be a focus of snowmaking and grooming in order to spread out the crowd. In that scenario the Chute becomes a serious issue without a bit of (but not too much!) widening, IMO. JM and DW are well aware if this issue, and indicated that there is a "chance" that the crew working on Trick will get over to Chute this off season.

I didn't get to ski Talisman last year except in fresh snow, and it was quite bumped both times I skied it the year before. I don't know what typical is, since I only make it up a couple times a year.

I hope it does work out, because Wizard with a little more snow and a little less chute would be really fun to lap, even without anything else on that side open.

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slatham said:

Talisman is typically groomed once they put a base down (last year it was "down the middle", previous years skiers left).

I would expect once the new Black Quad is in Wizard would be a focus of snowmaking and grooming in order to spread out the crowd. In that scenario the Chute becomes a serious issue without a bit of (but not too much!) widening, IMO. JM and DW are well aware if this issue, and indicated that there is a "chance" that the crew working on Trick will get over to Chute this off season.

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I didn't get to Magic last year but the previous years Talisman was groomed and was a fun and fast groomer that my wife loved.

ShadyGrove said:

I understand your point and Magic does tend to attract a more 'adventurous' crowd, but Broomstick is listed as a double black so if they ski similarly that's not really fair to folks that have not been before and find themselves soiling their long johns at the top of the wiz chute.

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Broomstick has been downgraded to single black since it was never that hard to begin with.

I don't know what's so hard about "Wizard Chute", yeah it's a little narrow but that's a good thing. Sometimes it has a few bumps and that's a good thing too. Nobody is forcing anyone to straight line it and there aren't cameras up recording your performance.

I like Magic for being a place where trail ratings aren't watered down just because 1 or 2 people who thought they were intermediates found out they are really beginners.

That part of Wizard isn't even any steeper than the part right before the curve before Slide of Hans entrance. Narrow is good, having only wide trails sucks!

imo if any part of the "Chute" should be widened it would be the really narrow washboard section that is totally flat after the slightly steep section. Tends to get upsie-downsie in there.

Smellytele said:

I didn't get to Magic last year but the previous years Talisman was groomed and was a fun and fast groomer that my wife loved.

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Often the grooming of Talisman is more based on the presence (or lack there of) of a scheduled race on it, than anything else.

Last year, mid February or so if I recall, after the mid season warm ups, but before March and the extended snowstorm showed up, my kids were supposed to have a slalom race on Talisman (it's legitimately one of the toughest slalom courses in VT). Magic started making snow on it for the race, but mother nature wasn't cooperative enough to get enough snow put down on Tali in time for a safe race to be held. Not sure if they had any races scheduled for Tali after that which would of had it getting some groomer love.

That combo of the pitch, the multi fallines and and turn to skiers left towards the end of the course makes it not just a great trail, but a great race hill as well!

Years ago there was a version of the Magic trail map (pic pasted below) that included a “future trail: Black Magic” that looked like it was planned to bypass the Wizard chute and drop people into the top part of Tali. Would something like that be part of a potential long-term solution to move at least some of the skier traffic off the chute?

chair13chin said:

Years ago there was a version of the Magic trail map (pic pasted below) that included a “future trail: Black Magic” that looked like it was planned to bypass the Wizard chute and drop people into the top part of Tali. Would something like that be part of a potential long-term solution to move at least some of the skier traffic off the chute?

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Great 1st post! It's fun to look back at those old maps. Lower Wiz is listed as a green run (which is probably more accurate but doesn't really matter since you have to take a blue or black to get there).

However, it takes a lot of snow to cover the snow making pipes that run along skier's right side of Wizard and I'm not sure that a double black trail would take much traffic off of the chute.

Just dropping in to say Trick is really fun when bumped up, good for the ego before someone tackles Goniff or similar


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chair13chin said:

Years ago there was a version of the Magic trail map (pic pasted below) that included a “future trail: Black Magic” that looked like it was planned to bypass the Wizard chute and drop people into the top part of Tali. Would something like that be part of a potential long-term solution to move at least some of the skier traffic off the chute?

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That would be a great and very steep trail. Would really make the combo of that trail with Talisman or Sorcerer an unbelievable expert run. I am sure it would lessen the traffic on Wizard (when open) but I don't think that alone would eliminate the issue on the Chute.

slatham said:

That would be a great and very steep trail. Would really make the combo of that trail with Talisman or Sorcerer an unbelievable expert run. I am sure it would lessen the traffic on Wizard (when open) but I don't think that alone would eliminate the issue on the Chute.

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Might even have a line in there that requires mandatory air. Don't ask me how I know. ;-)

slatham said:

That would be a great and very steep trail. Would really make the combo of that trail with Talisman or Sorcerer an unbelievable expert run. I am sure it would lessen the traffic on Wizard (when open) but I don't think that alone would eliminate the issue on the Chute.

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There are also a few ways to cut it such that it wouldn’t be all that steep. It’s a trail that I have thought about for a while and that I bet ultimately gets built.

slatham said:

Talisman is typically groomed once they put a base down (last year it was "down the middle", previous years skiers left).

I would expect once the new Black Quad is in Wizard would be a focus of snowmaking and grooming in order to spread out the crowd. In that scenario the Chute becomes a serious issue without a bit of (but not too much!) widening, IMO. JM and DW are well aware if this issue, and indicated that there is a "chance" that the crew working on Trick will get over to Chute this off season.

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Yes, Tali is a groomer and we hope to use it as a racing venue far more often. Last year was absolutely brutal weather and equipment wise, so every time we blew it in it melted out completely. Only when those huge dumps blew in were we able to keep it open, and even then it wasn't enough to groom- that's why it was all bumped up. Normally that would not be the case.

As for The Chute, yes I'd love to clean it up but as far as widening it that's almost impossible without dozens of truckloads of fill. It's in an area that's nearly all ledge, and the original trail was blasted out with dynamite in the 60s which means that whole area is basically all trap stone. It's a tough choke point because it is bad at managing water, and it is a huge choke point for almost all traffic going West. It's the first part to go in a melt and what's underneath is not friendly to skis so we try to blow it in mega deep knowing that. The uphill side below the crux is also all ledge with very little soil. That said, we will do our best at making it the best it can be, and will continue to try to find ways to improve its ability to get people to Tali, Sorc, etc.

I'd also love to connect upper Wiz to the top of Tali, but again that will take more time than we have right now. As it is you will all be wowed bigtime when you see the projects we've taken on this summer. LOTS of cleanup, particularly on our most heavily traveled areas and beginner trails. We feel it's utterly necessary to do projects that are tangible to skiers and not just satisfy ourselves with (obviously very important) hidden components and buried infrastructure nobody will ever see. Sunshine Corner got a huge cleanup, several key tree areas got a lot of love and basically every area below the green chair is being cleaned up as best we can.

It's very important to keep the encroachment brush pushed back for snowmaking and grooming. It also gives us a great opportunity to make the sides of the trails way more fun- usually we will push it back to reveal a nice shoulder, open up the trees and give people some fun routes to sneak into, hop off a mini ledge and get back out onto the trail super easy. That kind of thing really helps kids and beginners get comfortable with turning around a tree without the pressure of being "in the trees". Trick has a lot more room to mach, and a few SWEET shoulder booters now as well.

Basically we are seeing our first real glimpse of us letting our skier sides shine and create more opportunities for fun. One day we will be able to do a lot more of that but right now in our business plan it's almost all infrastructure work and fixing component issues. Everything we do we consider all aspects of usage, and we NEVEr forget that we don't want to turn this place into Stratton- but we've got a ton of catch up to do in terms of water bars, encroachment growth and stony, eroded areas that don't hold snow well enough. The place has been left to the weather for a looooong time and good ground management leads to good snow and runoff management- it will only help us offer a more reliable product in the long run.

I hope everybody is getting excited, I cannot wait to hit all these new areas and see how they look with a white blanket!

Do Work said:

We feel it's utterly necessary to do projects that are tangible to skiers and not just satisfy ourselves with (obviously very important) hidden components and buried infrastructure nobody will ever see.

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I think your mountain is super sweet, and really admire all that you have put into it. I know the setbacks must be disheartening (and expensive) but my family will continue to make the drive from NY at least a couple of times a year.

It's one of the few places in the East I haven't skied but I'm really looking forward to stopping in this year.

It's one of two NE places I've skied more than once. I keep coming back because it just feels right.

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Pass holder for the first time this winter, perfect place to teach my son.......

WoodCore said:

Pass holder for the first time this winter, perfect place to teach my son.......

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Solo glade clearing expedition today. Do Work was kind enough to give me a ride up to the entry point of my mission. Great stuff going on. Wizard and lower Talisman had seen some side clearing. DW says the crew was up on MC Through The Woods, Wizard Chute and Slide of Hans doing some grading and side clearing. And of course we’ve seen pics of Trick and Sunshine Corner.

Yellow Cat is out waiting for tracks.


Green’s lower bull wheel ready to go in.



Cable strung and splicing scheduled for this week.



Black Line Tavern looks great; looked like some carpentry work going on in the rental area; people were playing doc golf. And it felt like fall!


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WoodCore said:

Pass holder for the first time this winter, perfect place to teach my son.......

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No doubt about that; places like Magic, Plattekill, Smuggler's Notch, etc..... cant be beat for teaching kids to ski.