The NEW Magic Mountain

Vaughn · Mar 4, 2020

also should I be asking for the apology in writing or just a verbal 'my bad' or something?

NYDB · Mar 4, 2020

I believe they'll just give you a smack on the ass at the lift and send you on your way.

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sull1102 · Mar 4, 2020

Jesus Christ. Y’all are out of control on here. I say it sucks that the lift isn’t installed and then you all attack me and anyone else that even attempts to say I’m not totally wrong

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bdfreetuna · Mar 4, 2020

sull1102 said:
Y’all are out of control on here.

Says the person whose "absolutely pissed" a chairlift isn't installed lol

sull1102 said:
I would be absolutely pissed if I was a season pass holder.

JimG. · Mar 4, 2020

Domeskier said:
It's almost like they're not on the same spectrum.

Dome on a roll today.

skicub · Mar 5, 2020

Anyone out for throwback today 3/5? I’ll be at Magic likely till mid afternoon. Short chubby dude, Blue coat, let’s do a run! -Andy

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JamaicaMan · Mar 5, 2020

Yeah, wow. Definitely a few sleepless nights on this lift install and a few more gray hairs—not happy at all with how it progressed this fall with concrete contractor and then the GC taking off for two months and not being here getting it moving. We rely on experts to lay out a timetable and budget that is reasonable which we then communicate. Both have blown up. And as it did we communicated throughout the process in emails, Facebook and Instagram. There was no mystery. No hiding the issues. Just letting people know the status. The email this week was not news on it not being fully installed this season...that had been communicated for weeks...it was an update on renewed progress finally. Since I hire the contractors and pay them, it’s ultimately my responsibility if they don’t live up to the commitments they made to us. So be it. Feel free to blame me. But our ops people have worked hard to make the best of a difficult install situation which also impacted some of our snowmaking infrastructure early season.

But big picture, we are the only mountain to have summit lift service running all season in SoVT (hope that doesn’t jinx us) through high wind and storms and other mtns lift breakdowns. The longest line was 20 minutes on holiday weekends thanks to our successful install of the Green lift last year. The only thing the black lift not being in this season that really hurt us was the opportunity cost in not being able to promote it as installed to get more customer ticket revenue in here to our benefit, and the fact that not delivering on time certainly hurts us reputationally in some quarters as folks were expecting it. It’s the reality of major construction projects at times but still, it doesn’t help a small business trying to establish Magic in a tough competitive environment. Ultimately this lift will help us survive and thrive for the long term and we are doing all we can to deliver this baby for this current and the next generation of skiers coming to a magic so they can count on reliable lift service and lift redundancy to the summit. It gives families an option of a chair they can all ride together. It will get done (and not like the 16 years to get Green lift done). Just one season longer than we all wanted. I’m truly excited for the future and hope most of you are as well. I’m out on the hill every day working the lift lines, parking lots, skiing, having a beer in the Tavern (And some office work too). If you want to grab me and express concerns to me, please do. And I truly appreciate all the great reviews I’ve heard from people as I’m out there which shows we are on the right track. We will never be perfect at running a ski area, but we will keep trying to make it better and limiting the inevitable mistakes. Now, let’s get out and enjoy the remainder of the season either at Magic or the resort of your choice!

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KustyTheKlown · Mar 5, 2020

thanks geoff, for everything you and the team do

rocks860 · Mar 5, 2020

Yeah Geoff is good people, saw him out there for quite a while organizing the lift line on Saturday. Wanted to say hello but it looked like you were busy enough sorting people out

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ShadyGrove · Mar 5, 2020

Can I suggest a 'substantial completion' timeline with liquidated damage clause in future contracts?

Newpylong · Mar 5, 2020

AdironRider said:
They could have paid for the real pros, but didn't. While unfortunately the contractor died, there are challenges with any major construction project and they left themselves with no alternative. That was the mistake, not just luck like a lot are arguing.

Now they are going to carry the costs associated with this already used lift, for the better part of two years before a single person rides the thing. Letting a nickel hold up a dollar is bad business no matter who you are. Hopefully they didn't finance the thing because that will have effects elsewhere.

Installing a tramway is not the same as installing a bridge. It is not as simple as passing the buck to the next available engineering or construction firm. As has already been discussed, these are highly customized installs and there are very few that can do this kind of work. It didn't matter if someone else was "on deck" waiting for the primary installer to die, they would still have had to submit a modified application with the Tramway board and there would have been a delay in completing the lift. It is not realistic to expect that issue to have been foreseen or hedged against.

Newpylong · Mar 5, 2020

AdironRider said:
While there is no doubt the new ownership group is hands down better than the one before, they are still making some rookie mistakes.

Which makes it a good thing they have a faithful following, because if say Killington made a big stink about a new lift, then dropped the ball because they cheaped out on the sub to install and it got delayed an entire season, they'd get roasted for it, and rightfully so.

Plenty of other mom and pop shops buy used lifts and get them installed correctly and on time. Pat's Peak and Shawnee come to mind.

And just as many "mom and pop" shops don't. It took us two years to get a T-Bar put in at Whaleback. Two years for Ascutney to put their T-bar in. Meanwhile, even the big boys take multiple seasons. Two years for Waterville on their T-Bar, two years for Bretton Woods and their gondy.

As for Shawnee and Pat's - no really a comparison. Both were existing liftlines and simple profiles - not mile long lifts going up rock faces. Shawnee's triple is 4 towers, Pat's actually did take two years - they flew concrete in 2016 and finished it in 2017. Neither lifts were installed in the most restrictive state (Vermont) as far as construction in New England.

AdironRider · Mar 5, 2020

This feels like revisionist history outside of Bretton Woods in terms of lifts being delayed (as in did they advertise a new lift for one season, then delay it to the next, vs it always a 2 year timeframe - which is the entire point and a massive difference in situation). Whaleback was basically nelsap and is run by volunteers as a non-profit, so if we want to talk comparisons, that isn't even close to fair. I'm just not going to touch this whole concept that black didn't exist previously, or that Shawnee and Pats were somehow way less complicated. Shawnee even was pretty ahead of the game with their little loading carpet mod. Shawnee and Pats are their competitive set currently in terms of mountain scale, ownership, etc.

The faithful will always have blind love, and that is mostly a good thing, but Magic management better be careful their internet defenders don't drive anyone away with their constant flogging of anyone who dare criticize their special place. This lift delay is not an ideal situation no matter how you slice it, as management has now said as well. I haven't followed them religiously on social media, but based on their performance I tend to believe Magic that they have indeed been communicating these issues as they arise, but that does not change the notion that the lift got jacked in the first place, by multiple contractors.

Which in terms of the subs failing, they went with the cheap ones. Others have already pointed this out that Dopp, ETC were too expensive. Those outfits don't shut down because one guy dies. That is a business reality for Magic I'm sure but we are all seeing the risk when choosing that route now. Now throw in the concrete guy also sucking and you start to see a pattern. It sounds like they have learned these lessons.

Also, as far as I can tell, the regulatory environment of VT has not been the issue with the black lift, but feel free to point me to where it was. I don't doubt it would be a challenge given it being VT and all, but it should not be surprising either, and would have been accounted for in terms of advertising their fancy new lift.

bdfreetuna · Mar 5, 2020

AdironRider said:
The faithful will always have blind love

I like the cheap, steep, relatively nearby ski area with the most trees and low key vibe.

AdironRider · Mar 5, 2020

EDIT: Newpylong deleted his reply, to which the rest of this post is responding

I never said two year installs are unheard of, what I said was saying (advertising) it would be 1 year, then taking two, is. I'll concede Bretton Woods, but overall most companies don't do that. You know this is bad business but keep completely glossing over this point.

ACT 250 has existed for decades and is well known at this point. If it was a source of unforeseen delays I'm sorry that is on Magic management.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but good on JM for responding, it sounds like they are learning from the situation and continuing to improve. That should also not be overlooked.

Newpylong · Mar 5, 2020

Yes once you added the additional info, my reply was moot because I had misunderstood your point. We were arguing two different things.

skimagic · Mar 5, 2020

Lets sum this up, some folks are mad since the new old non high speed quad is not ready until next year. So there are lines at red that are just the same as last year. And the lines mean you get 2 less runs in? If that's what its about,there are plenty of places witha HS6 one can go to that have the same lift lines but you can make it up by having more epic runs with more people on the runs. Enjoy.

slatham · Mar 5, 2020

JamaicaMan said:
Yeah, wow. Definitely a few sleepless nights on this lift install and a few more gray hairs—not happy at all with how it progressed this fall with concrete contractor and then the GC taking off for two months and not being here getting it moving. We rely on experts to lay out a timetable and budget that is reasonable which we then communicate. Both have blown up. And as it did we communicated throughout the process in emails, Facebook and Instagram. There was no mystery. No hiding the issues. Just letting people know the status. The email this week was not news on it not being fully installed this season...that had been communicated for weeks...it was an update on renewed progress finally. Since I hire the contractors and pay them, it’s ultimately my responsibility if they don’t live up to the commitments they made to us. So be it. Feel free to blame me. But our ops people have worked hard to make the best of a difficult install situation which also impacted some of our snowmaking infrastructure early season.

But big picture, we are the only mountain to have summit lift service running all season in SoVT (hope that doesn’t jinx us) through high wind and storms and other mtns lift breakdowns. The longest line was 20 minutes on holiday weekends thanks to our successful install of the Green lift last year. The only thing the black lift not being in this season that really hurt us was the opportunity cost in not being able to promote it as installed to get more customer ticket revenue in here to our benefit, and the fact that not delivering on time certainly hurts us reputationally in some quarters as folks were expecting it. It’s the reality of major construction projects at times but still, it doesn’t help a small business trying to establish Magic in a tough competitive environment. Ultimately this lift will help us survive and thrive for the long term and we are doing all we can to deliver this baby for this current and the next generation of skiers coming to a magic so they can count on reliable lift service and lift redundancy to the summit. It gives families an option of a chair they can all ride together. It will get done (and not like the 16 years to get Green lift done). Just one season longer than we all wanted. I’m truly excited for the future and hope most of you are as well. I’m out on the hill every day working the lift lines, parking lots, skiing, having a beer in the Tavern (And some office work too). If you want to grab me and express concerns to me, please do. And I truly appreciate all the great reviews I’ve heard from people as I’m out there which shows we are on the right track. We will never be perfect at running a ski area, but we will keep trying to make it better and limiting the inevitable mistakes. Now, let’s get out and enjoy the remainder of the season either at Magic or the resort of your choice!

Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

The lack of communication from Magic Management has been beyond frustrating! Total black hole! WFT. I buy a season pass and I never hear from them again? I think I'm going to ski Mt Snow - they really nailed it this year when it comes to communicating with the skiing public!;-):grin: :snow:

MEtoVTSkier · Mar 5, 2020

Domeskier said:
We were promised rides on a black chair and a red chair. All we get is rides on a red chair. I don't sit out all day at the railroad crossing just to see some everyday workhorse chug through off-schedule, and I sure as heck don't subject myself to the hazards and risks of alpine skiing to ride only half the colored chairs I bargained for.

They made 3 of one model, and 2 of the other. Sit your ass at the crossing like the rest of the railfans and take your pictures! :lol::lol::lol:

MEtoVTSkier · Mar 5, 2020

Slidebrook87 said:
I’ve stated multiple times that there were in fact issues that came up around the timeline. The issue was that Magic both guaranteed that it would operate this season and for a good portion of the season completely stopped progress and left it as a mystery to the public. Any good ownership would explain what had happened and try to make good from it. It’s as simple as that.

Ah, now we know... :lol::lol::lol:

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