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Skiing/Snowboarding Trends

dlague

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In another thread there was a discussion regarding the % of criminals which led me to look into skiing/snowboarding numbers and the trend is a little disturbing. Last year the industry hit skier/snowboarder levels not seen in 25 years. Now that might be due to a poor winter since the numbers dropped dramatically last season. However over the past several seasons the trend is down

http://www.nsaa.org/media/275017/1516_visits.pdf

Now the total skier visits is one thing but the total number of participants is following a similar trend down 25% from the peak in 2010/2011.

This document also highlights issues in the industry - the struggle of the smaller ski areas where the number of ski areas has gone from the mid 500's to the mid 400's over the past 20 years.

http://www.nsaa.org/media/275065/Number_of_Ski_Areas_by_Season_1516.pdf

With all of that information, what I find interesting is the industry seems to focus of beginner conversion and now so much on the cost of entry. While resorts are getting creative with beginner packaging and experience which leads to beginner conversion model, and newer pricing schemes seem to be focused on retention, is it enough to get numbers to turn around. Looking at things like 6% new participants with 1% conversion based on the total and limiting retention loss as being the model, it seems like they are not discussing demographic changes especially with respect to an aging baby boomer population. However, there seems to be a growing number of resorts working on retaining to 20 something crowds.

While the document below is focused on beginner conversion, it seems like finding ways to lower the cost of entry should also be a factor.


http://www.nsaa.org/media/22284/conversion_cookbook.pdf
 

Jully

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While I agree that the industry needs to focus on newer customers and parents introducing their kids to the sport with baby boomers leaving the skiing population, the visitation report doesn't scare me THAT much. The thing that is concerning is the lack of GROWTH in the industry. In the northeast specifically we've hovered around 13 million visits for awhile now and hence the baby boomer issue youth participation is going to have to increase drastically just to keep up.

If you look at the 2014-2015 season you see everywhere is within 3-5% of the 2010-2011 peak with the exception of the dismal year in the Pacific West because of the blob and in the midwest. While I know nothing about the midwest, the far west issues do not currently have to do with a loss of skier populations just yet, it is weather related.

2010-2011 does not seem as much like a peak in terms of skier visits, it seems to me like a perfect storm of good winters all across the US. I wouldn't say the trend is down due to an aging population quite yet. If this is an average season across the US, it will be interesting to see what the numbers look like (and I could be proven very wrong about the trend not being down).
 

Jully

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Speaking to another trend, coming from a healthcare/medical perspective I wonder if the declining health of the American people in some aspects has anything to do with the lack of growth. Arthritis and diabetes prevalence have dramatically increased in the past few decades and show no signs of slowing down. If you have daily pain associated with osteoarthritis, you likely are not in a position to ski.

Its possible that the skiing population is just healthier in general and is therefore exempt from the obesity trend, but I tend to not think so for a variety of different reasons. While certainly many people do not ski because they hate winter and the cold or it is too expensive... I wonder if health holds people back. If people are developing arthritis when they're 45 instead of 65, are they leaving the sport "early?"

I think it would be useful for resorts to somehow figure out why people stop skiing. Somehow reaching out to former season pass holders or people who ordered tickets online and asking why you don't si as much as previous years could be fruitful.

Obvious answers would be money, weather, parenting, but that can't be the whole story.
 
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cdskier

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I think it would be useful for resorts to somehow figure out why people stop skiing. Somehow reaching out to former season pass holders or people who ordered tickets online and asking why you don't si as much as previous years could be fruitful.

That would be interesting information. I wonder if any resorts have already done this. With computers and so many people paying via credit cards, there really should be a ton of data available to mine. Even if you just buy day tickets they should be able to figure out for a particular person what their habits are.

Obvious answers would be money, weather, parenting, but that can't be the whole story.

I've said it before, but I think the cost factor is huge. Sure there are tons of deals out there, but for the average person that just goes to look at a day ticket price without knowing about the various deals they will easily be scared off. I think another big factor for kids is competition from other sports. There are so many sports leagues and teams for kids now that just suck tremendous time that there's simply less time available to ski.
 

snoseek

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Millennials and to a lesser extent Gen Xers simply don't have the wealth that the boomers have had. I predict this trend continues as older population dies off.


Edit golf is slowing a lot as well
 

Not Sure

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Millennials and to a lesser extent Gen Xers simply don't have the wealth that the boomers have had. I predict this trend continues as older population dies off.


Edit golf is slowing a lot as well

Agree, my Soaring club is aging out with no young members coming in. Many of the members own powered aircraft as well ,some have resorted to parting out their panes to sell as the market is not good .

There is a stereotype that skiing is a "Rich mans" sport. I mentioned to someone that I skied and that was the first thing out of his mouth. I countered by asking him how much he spent on a pack of cigarettes per day and a case of beer per week. Turned out he was the "Rich " man.

Another reason I believe is the instant gratification theme through society.Skiing is a sport that requires a lot of determination to learn. When I started I had a great deal of frustration with the old Spademan bindings icing up, literally had to scrape the ice off the plates to get back in the bindings while watching 6 yrs old whiz by. Equipment is far better now but as a novice falling is very common,if you pick a bad year or bad conditions to learn it can kill the fun factor. I didn't take any lessons but had good friends to teach me but still was my 3rd time out before I could make it to the bottom without falling.



PS, the skier vs snowboarder thing is all in fun , or at least that's my take .
 

raisingarizona

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Agree, my Soaring club is aging out with no young members coming in. Many of the members own powered aircraft as well ,some have resorted to parting out their panes to sell as the market is not good .

There is a stereotype that skiing is a "Rich mans" sport. I mentioned to someone that I skied and that was the first thing out of his mouth. I countered by asking him how much he spent on a pack of cigarettes per day and a case of beer per week. Turned out he was the "Rich " man.

Sure there are ways to make it work, especially if you are single young adult with little responsibility in your life. Now throw in a typical family of four and go have a weekend ski holiday, now it's a rich mans sport!

The problem I see with this argument is that the more middle class or even poor skier that is single isn't feeding the sport with new blood, any industry constantly needs a new and younger generation of participants to survive. So once that skier becomes a parent things have to change, they either figure out a way to make it work which generally means making more money or they decide to drop the activity all together, maybe little Johnny doesn't like the cold but wants to play basketball all winter instead making the decision that much easier.

I'm guessing that a lot of people on a site like this are dedicated skiers and would make it work no matter what but for the majority of recreational skiers it's not that important.
 

Pez

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Americans are soft.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone
 

steamboat1

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Work is a full time job. The younger generation just doesn't have the free time a lot of us enjoyed. For most it's not 9 to 5 anymore. I see it with the hours my daughter has to work & she has a good job with a major corporation.
 

mikec142

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I think that it's a combination of the reasons listed above. Five main factor's that I've observed among my peers (My wife and I are in our mid 40's and have two kids 14 and 12):

1. When I was a kid, my parents didn't ski (still don't) but I went on a lot of ski trips with friends, school, ski clubs, temple, etc. My temple no longer does those ski trips, the schools no longer run those ski trips, it's a big "ask" to take a friend skiing if they are novices or can't keep up with us...that kid feels uncomfortable and it affects our ski time. Ski clubs by me aren't as popular as they used to be. So access for the child who skis occasionally or whose parents don't ski is limited.

2. Lack of organization. When you have to dig out all the ski gear and apparel for several kids the night before (or even worse, the morning of) and rent skis, etc. it can seem overwhelming, especially if you have young kids. In my house, it's my job to manage all the ski gear and make sure that it's out and ready to go when we are ready to go. We have great friends who ski about 1/3 as much as we do because it's just a lot of organization for them and it seems like too much work.

3. It's costly. You can definitely find deals, but it often involves work and early planning that the casual ski parent doesn't want to do.

4. Other sports. Two winters ago, my daughter's travel soccer team scheduled "mandatory" winter training on Friday's from 4-7pm from early November thru March. Soccer games in my area go through the end of November and start up again the first or second weekend of March. That's just soccer (which isn't even a winter sport). Basketball is every winter weekend. Most non-winter sports have "off season" training during the ski season. My oldest plays field hockey for her high school. The season ends this week and then winter training begins a week later. Thankfully it's not on weekends this year.

5. Passion. Skiing is a passion for my family. It's sport and outdoor activity that we get to do as a family. We take vacations that are centered around skiing, etc. etc. If you don't love skiing, it can seem like a lot of work and money to partake in the sport. I'm the guy who happily drives 2.5 hours each direction for a day trip or drives 6 hours each direction for a weekend or 8 hours each direction for an extended weekend.

Of all my local friends who ski, I can think of only 1-2 other families who are happy to spend the $$ and time, miss other sports events, get organized and ready, and then drive couple of hours to ski.
 

Big Game

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While I agree that the industry needs to focus on newer customers and parents introducing their kids to the sport ....

Think right there you are hitting on another factor. A cultural change in America. It anecdotal evidence, but hey it's all I got.

I tried skiing in 1983. Went night skiing with some friends in Mt. Southington. A couple of my friends may have gone before. But this is the critical difference, their parents did NOT ski. Nor did mine.

In high school we organized a ski club that filled up a coach for a trip up north. Out of the 44 kids probably 4 had parents that skied.

But now, if you are under 30 it seems the most critical factor that determines if you ski is whether your parents do or not. Maybe it is because kids aren't as adventurous, maybe because they have little to rebel against, maybe it is because we all have to do things as a family.

And maybe also it's all the stupid sports-hype. When I was in high school it already started. A couple of cute twins wouldn't join us any more at Powder Ridge because of basketball. Basketball? Urgh. What a waste of fine talent.

EDIT: And I now see MikeC142 has parallel, if not more in-depth, analysis (although does not appear to share my hatred for basketball). I'm 45... Now that I recall, my first trip was actually organized by my church youth group.
 
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dlague

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Back in Concord we would encourage our sons to invite friends and amazingly enough no many did. The few that did were not that good and it was one and done or they were busy with Hockey, basketball, baseball clinics etc. Now in Colorado, my son has a bunch of new friends and only two ski or board. That was surprising to me.
 

dlague

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^ That's actually a good point. Reaching a new demographic.

Speaking of that, i was on Facebook and there was a sponsored ad for Mammoth and it seemed to target those that already ski - makes sense. But it probably does not do much to get attract never evers. It has to be a challenge, the bigger resorts probably target experience, and some resorts target new people. But technically two types of marketing, which begs the question of where do you out your dollars, never evers can be a bust where the experienced already know and retention is the name of the game.
 

Jully

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I would think advertising learn to ski and ride type programs on college campuses would be a good move. Everywhere as far south as MA and CT should absolutely get the attention of at least the local resorts.
 

dlague

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While many of us are around those who ski or snowboard, I would bet that we all know more people who do not. I started asking why my non skiing friends do not want to and there were several responses - I do not need to break anything, I do not like the cold, It is too expensive, I do not have the time, It seems like too much work and I will never be good at it, etc.

With most of those responses, it will be a stretch to see them ever try it. That being said, I have a sister and her family that never skied and now they go as a family. She started at 42 with her family. Her kids got into it through school programs and lessons at McIntyre and she later thought to give it a whirl. She will never be a good skier but is getting out there. Her husband picked it up a skis pretty good, however, a little reckless. They started because they saw us having fun as a family which is the best marketing.

Unfortunately, ski areas are wanting us to get people into the sport but their approach of giving us a free lift ticket to charge a beginner full cost is not the right approach IMO. They would be better off with a limited terrain ticket and clinics at low dollars with a half off deal for the person that brings them to the mountain for a better experience. That is just my perspective. Entry to this great sport we love needs to feel easy, once they are hooked then put the screws to them.
 

deadheadskier

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That being said, I have a sister and her family that never skied and now they go as a family. She started at 42 with her family. Her kids got into it through school programs and lessons at McIntyre and she later thought to give it a whirl. She will never be a good skier but is getting out there. Her husband picked it up a skis pretty good, however, a little reckless. They started because they saw us having fun as a family which is the best marketing.

This is exactly how things worked out with my family. I loved the snow, so my parents put me in a program at Ward Hill in second grade. They and my older brother took up the sport the following year as my father saw it as a great family activity.

My brother was 16 at the time and he only ended up skiing for about five years before giving up the sport. He joined us about half the time while he was in High School, but also had teenage interests that didn't involve mom, dad and his kid brother. After HS he joined us less and less and then stopped all together by 23 or so even though my father would buy his lift tickets.

I on the other hand caught the bug hard and lost interest in all other sports within a couple years. Gave up youth soccer, basketball and baseball by the 5th grade. I did end up playing lacrosse and football in high school at the urging of friends.

So, if the experience of my brother and I is any example, it would seem to me that getting kids hooked at a very young age is the path towards developing life long skiers.
 

dlague

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This is exactly how things worked out with my family. I loved the snow, so my parents put me in a program at Ward Hill in second grade. They and my older brother took up the sport the following year as my father saw it as a great family activity.

My brother was 16 at the time and he only ended up skiing for about five years before giving up the sport. He joined us about half the time while he was in High School, but also had teenage interests that didn't involve mom, dad and his kid brother. After HS he joined us less and less and then stopped all together by 23 or so even though my father would buy his lift tickets.

I on the other hand caught the bug hard and lost interest in all other sports within a couple years. Gave up youth soccer, basketball and baseball by the 5th grade. I did end up playing lacrosse and football in high school at the urging of friends.

So, if the experience of my brother and I is any example, it would seem to me that getting kids hooked at a very young age is the path towards developing life long skiers.

That is why I think the Passport Programs are good but when our kids were in 4th and 5th grade in NH we took advantage of it - none of their friends even knew about it. Things like that need to be better marketed. Those programs when used by families that ski together already do not gain traction towards growing the sport.
 
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