Vail to buy Stowe?

bushpilot · Feb 23, 2017

cdskier said:
Even LP might be below 15 minutes at Bravo and Valley House. My cousin was there this weekend with his family and said lines were moving pretty quick.

gatehouse seems to be the only one that gets busy around 10 and stays that way until 3.

hovercraft · Feb 23, 2017

WWF-VT said:
Mt Ellen

I was speaking about a real mountain

dlague · Feb 23, 2017

BenedictGomez said:
I imagine they will need a slight price increase, perhaps $900? Even if it's $1000, I dont know how you could argue it's not going to be the best pass option in the east for many. Look on the bright side, it will definitely pull some people away from Killington.

It will not be 1000. There are too many other competing pass products in competing areas. I can see close to or around $900.

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deadheadskier · Feb 23, 2017

hovercraft said:
I was speaking about a real mountain

Now you're just trolling......

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snoseek · Feb 23, 2017

deadheadskier said:
Now you're just trolling......

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Hahaha one of the best sustained vertical mountains in the east and stands on its own nationwide and not a "real mountain". Definitely trolling!

hovercraft · Feb 23, 2017

snoseek said:
Hahaha one of the best sustained vertical mountains in the east and stands on its own nationwide and not a "real mountain". Definitely trolling!

You must be kidding me. You are going to compare mt Ellen to Stowe. That's laughable.

deadheadskier · Feb 23, 2017

hovercraft said:
You must be kidding me. You are going to compare mt Ellen to Stowe. That's laughable.

I lived and ski bummed in Stowe for years. It's my favorite Mountain in the East.

On a peak season weekend and especially a holiday weekend, I'll take Mount Ellen these days.

I'll be skiing. Enjoy standing in line instead.

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hovercraft · Feb 23, 2017

deadheadskier said:
I lived and ski bummed in Stowe for years. It's my favorite Mountain in the East.

On a peak season weekend and especially a holiday weekend, I'll take Mount Ellen these days.

I'll be skiing. Enjoy standing in line instead.

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deadheadskier said:
I lived and ski bummed in Stowe for years. It's my favorite Mountain in the East.

My point being even if you stand in line for a few extra minutes you get up to the top of the mountain much quicker plus you are getting over 2000 ft of vertical. That is not happening at Mt Ellen. Plus if you don't won't to wait at all you can go to the spruce side and do sensation lift. So my bet is that you can get more vertical at Stowe on the same holiday day as you can get at the bush even if you are waiting in line for a longer period of time. Let's not forget when the bush isn't fully open the lines are way longer the 10 to 15 minutes as well. When the rock is closed the lines are f**ked. Also summit chair 10minute lift for a minute run down.

deadheadskier · Feb 23, 2017

The conversation is this. Stowe has become an extremely crowded mountain especially in comparison to what it was ten years ago. A lot of people do not care for the increased popularity. The Epic pass will worsen an already bad situation.

If you don't find the crowds at Stowe a problem, great, enjoy. Others will choose Sugarbush. I know that's where I'd likely call home if I shifted back to VT. After primarily calling Wildcat home for the past several years, I no longer have the tolerance for how crowded Stowe has become on weekends. Weekdays? It would always be my first choice.

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cdskier · Feb 23, 2017

hovercraft said:
My point being even if you stand in line for a few extra minutes you get up to the top of the mountain much quicker plus you are getting over 2000 ft of vertical. That is not happening at Mt Ellen. Plus if you don't won't to wait at all you can go to the spruce side and do sensation lift. So my bet is that you can get more vertical at Stowe on the same holiday day as you can get at the bush even if you are waiting in line for a longer period of time. Let's not forget when the bush isn't fully open the lines are way longer the 10 to 15 minutes as well. When the rock is closed the lines are f**ked. Also summit chair 10minute lift for a minute run down.

You get 1700' of vertical at ME lapping the North Ridge chair. A 5 minute lift ride with a few minute wait on a holiday will allow you to rack up much more vertical than you could standing in line at Stowe to ski 2000' of vertical.

Let's do some math. I'll use 10 minutes to ski down either mountain in this example.

ME: 10 minutes down + 5 minutes up + 5 minutes in line = 1700' in 20 minutes, or 5100' per hour.
Stowe: 10 minutes down + 5 minutes up (not sure what the real number is, but I'll use 5 for simplicity sake) + 15 minutes in line = 2000' in 30 minutes or 4000' per hour.

Explain to me again how you are getting more vertical at Stowe than at ME with 15 minute lines vs 5 minute lines. With no lines you can get more at Stowe, but the case being discussed was when there are crowds.

hovercraft · Feb 23, 2017

cdskier said:
You get 1700' of vertical at ME lapping the North Ridge chair. A 5 minute lift ride with a few minute wait on a holiday will allow you to rack up much more vertical than you could standing in line at Stowe to ski 2000' of vertical.

Let's do some math. I'll use 10 minutes to ski down either mountain in this example.

ME: 10 minutes down + 5 minutes up + 5 minutes in line = 1700' in 20 minutes, or 5100' per hour.
Stowe: 10 minutes down + 5 minutes up (not sure what the real number is, but I'll use 5 for simplicity sake) + 15 minutes in line = 2000' in 30 minutes or 4000' per hour.

Explain to me again how you are getting more vertical at Stowe than at ME with 15 minute lines vs 5 minute lines. With no lines you can get more at Stowe, but the case being discussed was when there are crowds.

The example I was using was 10 minute lift lines at the bush and 15 at Stowe. As I thought that is what was implied. At Stowe you can go over to the sensation lift and have almost no wait and get more vertical. The point I was trying to make is it's not as simple as saying the mountain as not skiable on holiday weekends. There is more to it besides how long a lift line is, unless it's extreme.

thetrailboss · Feb 23, 2017

WWF-VT said:
Mt Ellen

+ 1

Or Burke. Or Middlebury.

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Shredmonkey254 · Feb 23, 2017

hovercraft said:
The example I was using was 10 minute lift lines at the bush and 15 at Stowe. As I thought that is what was implied. At Stowe you can go over to the sensation lift and have almost no wait and get more vertical. The point I was trying to make is it's not as simple as saying the mountain as not skiable on holiday weekends. There is more to it besides how long a lift line is, unless it's extreme.

Who in their right mind would ski over at Spruce? That is a beginners area and is a total bore. I'd rather not ski. So this is a crap argument.

hovercraft · Feb 23, 2017

Shredmonkey254 said:
Who in their right mind would ski over at Spruce? That is a beginners area and is a total bore. I'd rather not ski. So this is a crap argument.

Your telling me that the sensation quad is beginners, really?

Shredmonkey254 · Feb 23, 2017

hovercraft · Feb 23, 2017

Shredmonkey254 said:
Yup

That's laughable. I guess in your mind elbow is a double black diamond. Get real!

hovercraft · Feb 23, 2017

Shredmonkey254 said:
Yup

Oh, I guess the division 1 UVM race team that skis over there is skiing beginners terrain. Stop embarrassing yourself.

cdskier · Feb 23, 2017

hovercraft said:
The example I was using was 10 minute lift lines at the bush and 15 at Stowe. As I thought that is what was implied. At Stowe you can go over to the sensation lift and have almost no wait and get more vertical. The point I was trying to make is it's not as simple as saying the mountain as not skiable on holiday weekends. There is more to it besides how long a lift line is, unless it's extreme.

Why would 10 minutes have been implied? If we were talking about LP, then sure a 10 minute lift line on a holiday wouldn't be surprising. But we were talking about where to go to avoid crowds and the answer was ME. The implication of saying ME is good to avoid crowds is that the lift lines are short. Maybe we have different definitions of short, but 10 minutes is not a short line to me. 5 minutes is a short line.

hovercraft · Feb 23, 2017

cdskier said:
Why would 10 minutes have been implied? If we were talking about LP, then sure a 10 minute lift line on a holiday wouldn't be surprising. But we were talking about where to go to avoid crowds and the answer was ME. The implication of saying ME is good to avoid crowds is that the lift lines are short. Maybe we have different definitions of short, but 10 minutes is not a short line to me. 5 minutes is a short line.

I thought 10 was used somewhere. We do have different definitions of what is acceptable. In my mind I am ok to wait up to 15 minutes to get to the top of the mountain for all the vertical and choice I get st Stowe. More then that not so much. Again my point being it's just not about lift lines there are other factors to consider as people make value judgments on where they want to ski or ride. By no means am I knocking SB love the mountain and terrain.

SnowRock · Feb 23, 2017

To clarify on the mountain collective, I think it was 389 early with the third bonus day at a mountain of your choice. As a flatlander who gets to Stowe about 10 days a season I very much like the product. By the end of the season I will have 16 days at a combination of Stowe, Jackson and Snowbird for under 1k... will put me aroud 60 a day. For me that's not bad given the caliber of terrain.

If I was sugarbush I'd definitely try and get added to the MC... I know the Stowe folks said it sold pretty well the past two seasons.

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