Vail to buy Stowe?

Jcb890 · Feb 27, 2017

sugarbushskier9 said:
Yeah so you weren't that thrilled with Loon...BUT it did get you there to at least try it. That's the main point. As a resort you then have to wow those people. In order to have the opportunity to impress people you have to get them there in the first place. Of course many won't be wowed (it could be something as simple as the weather on the day you went wasn't that good) but these types of pass products at least get you to that specific resort. This year the Max Pass gave Loon a chance to wow you, but it failed. That's an issue for Loon but in the end it did get you to that resort that you might otherwise never have visited.

I do think the industry is heading towards consolidation in passes, people like the variety and it adds value in their minds.

The Collective Pass though isn't meant to be for just one resort, so if you frequent one spot it makes no sense. Its for people who get around and have the means and financial resources to visit places all over the place during the winter.

I should have been more explicit.

I am far enough away (2-3 hrs from most mountains in VT/NH) that I do not consider any of the mountains my "home" mountain and do not have season passes to any of them. The MAX Pass gives us the opportunity to hit a bunch of New England mountains up to 5 times each. Even still, we won't be purchasing a season pass to any of these mountains.

thetrailboss · Mar 23, 2017

http://www.wcax.com/category/166239/video-landing-page?clipId=13193372&autostart=true

Seems like a 2:40 ad for Sugarbush, but it does include feedback from MRG and other areas.

mbedle · Mar 27, 2017

So the http://www.snow.com/epic-pass/passes/epic-pass.aspx website has been updated to list Stowe under the full Epic Pass (with the caveat that its subject to the closing). Tried calling to see if you do purchase it, and the closing doesn't take place you will get a refund. Doesn't list any other options for Stowe, like a local only pass, college pass, 30 something pass, etc. Guessing Sugarbush is going to see a jump in 30 something and college pass sales this summer.

benski · Mar 27, 2017

mbedle said:
Guessing Sugarbush is going to see a jump in 30 something and college pass sales this summer.

They actually don't sell college passes early season. They start selling them in September and increase the rate around election day so its cheapest for college kids to purchase in the fall.

hovercraft · Mar 27, 2017

mbedle said:
So the http://www.snow.com/epic-pass/passes/epic-pass.aspx website has been updated to list Stowe under the full Epic Pass (with the caveat that its subject to the closing). Tried calling to see if you do purchase it, and the closing doesn't take place you will get a refund. Doesn't list any other options for Stowe, like a local only pass, college pass, 30 something pass, etc. Guessing Sugarbush is going to see a jump in 30 something and college pass sales this summer.

They will have all the same options as the other mountains do. Received an email from them this morning stating that they will appear after the closing which is supposed to happen May 1st

dlague · Mar 27, 2017

mbedle said:
So the http://www.snow.com/epic-pass/passes/epic-pass.aspx website has been updated to list Stowe under the full Epic Pass (with the caveat that its subject to the closing). Tried calling to see if you do purchase it, and the closing doesn't take place you will get a refund. Doesn't list any other options for Stowe, like a local only pass, college pass, 30 something pass, etc. Guessing Sugarbush is going to see a jump in 30 something and college pass sales this summer.

I have never seen Vail offer College Pass, or 30 Something Pass. Why do many here think they will do something out of the norm for Vail because they bought Stowe. They have not done much out of the ordinary with Whistler where they paid 20 times as much for.

This was a curious move:

Epic Local Pass

Also includes a total of 10 combined days at Vail, Beaver Creek, Whistler Blackcomb, and Stowe (subject to the closing of the acquisition) with holiday restrictions.

mbedle · Mar 27, 2017

hovercraft said:
They will have all the same options as the other mountains do. Received an email from them this morning stating that they will appear after the closing which is supposed to happen May 1st

The problem with that is not all of Vail's mountain have the same options available. Some have college passes, some have local only passes and some have their own independent season passes (Whistler). None of them have a 30 something type pass.

hovercraft · Mar 27, 2017

mbedle said:
The problem with that is not all of Vail's mountain have the same options available. Some have college passes, some have local only passes and some have their own independent season passes (Whistler). None of them have a 30 something type pass.

I was speaking of the college pass. I would think that Vail wouldn't give up the college pass as it is such a big draw to sell season passes and that is what Vail is all about.

thetrailboss · Mar 27, 2017

benski said:
They actually don't sell college passes early season. They start selling them in September and increase the rate around election day so its cheapest for college kids to purchase in the fall.

Exactly. And IIRC Vail historically only does Adult, Junior, and College. I would not expect them to do a "20 something" or "30 something" pass because it already is heavily discounted. Their blackout pass is on the order of $549 for an adult. We're talking about the same price as a Burke only pass.

mbedle · Mar 27, 2017

dlague said:
I have never seen Vail offer College Pass, or 30 Something Pass. Why do many here think they will do something out of the norm for Vail because they bought Stowe. They have not done much out of the ordinary with Whistler where they paid 20 times as much for.

This was a curious move:

Epic Local Pass

Also includes a total of 10 combined days at Vail, Beaver Creek, Whistler Blackcomb, and Stowe (subject to the closing of the acquisition) with holiday restrictions.

Don't they offer a college pass at Park City?

thetrailboss · Mar 27, 2017

mbedle said:
Don't they offer a college pass at Park City?

Yes.

hovercraft · Mar 27, 2017

I just spoke to the Epic office. They will be offering other products for Stowe. They do not know what they are yet (at that level anyway). They did tell me you can buy the epic pass now and if another product gets announced that fits you better you can change products.

mbedle · Mar 27, 2017

thetrailboss said:
Exactly. And IIRC Vail historically only does Adult, Junior, and College. I would not expect them to do a "20 something" or "30 something" pass because it already is heavily discounted. Their blackout pass is on the order of $549 for an adult. We're talking about the same price as a Burke only pass.

I was thinking that Vail would have a good handle on how many additional skier visits Stowe saw this year under the 30 something pass. By ending that and increasing the price up to $849 might send a lot of them back to Sugarbush. I think epic local only has 10 days at Stowe.

mbedle · Mar 27, 2017

hovercraft said:
I just spoke to the Epic office. They will be offering other products for Stowe. They do not know what they are yet (at that level anyway). They did tell me you can buy the epic pass now and if another product gets announced that fits you better you can change products.

Good news, thanks for calling.

thetrailboss · Mar 27, 2017

mbedle said:
I was thinking that Vail would have a good handle on how many additional skier visits Stowe saw this year under the 30 something pass. By ending that and increasing the price up to $849 might send a lot of them back to Sugarbush. I think epic local only has 10 days at Stowe.

Yes, it will be very interesting to see what Vail does with Stowe's pricing. The easy thing is to simply use the Epic Pass template--a locals pass with blackouts, the full Epic, and the college/youth options. You raise an interesting point about the 30's pass that Stowe offered...on a very limited geographic basis. That was clearly aimed at Sugarbush. I would be interesting to hear if that was wildly successful. It seemed very limited as to who could get it. My gut tells me though that they will just push their Epic Local at the $639 pricepoint. At least for now.

dlague · Mar 27, 2017

thetrailboss said:
Yes, it will be very interesting to see what Vail does with Stowe's pricing. The easy thing is to simply use the Epic Pass template--a locals pass with blackouts, the full Epic, and the college/youth options. You raise an interesting point about the 30's pass that Stowe offered...on a very limited geographic basis. That was clearly aimed at Sugarbush. I would be interesting to hear if that was wildly successful. It seemed very limited as to who could get it. My gut tells me though that they will just push their Epic Local at the $639 pricepoint. At least for now.

Is Vail really interested in the Vermont College crowd?

cdskier · Mar 27, 2017

thetrailboss said:
Yes, it will be very interesting to see what Vail does with Stowe's pricing. The easy thing is to simply use the Epic Pass template--a locals pass with blackouts, the full Epic, and the college/youth options. You raise an interesting point about the 30's pass that Stowe offered...on a very limited geographic basis. That was clearly aimed at Sugarbush. I would be interesting to hear if that was wildly successful. It seemed very limited as to who could get it. My gut tells me though that they will just push their Epic Local at the $639 pricepoint. At least for now.

The problem with that thought from a Stowe perspective is the Epic Local pass on the Epic website says it is only good for 10 days at Stowe, Vail, Beaver Creek, and Whistler combined. So for a Stowe skier, that pass is pretty much useless.

It will be interesting to see what (if anything) they end up doing for that 20-30s age range for Stowe. If they don't offer anything, Sugarbush will be a very tempting alternative for those groups then at $349 for 20s and $549 for 30s vs the full Epic pass at $849. One other consideration is if those people planned on making any western trips, then the extra money for the Epic could make sense.

The other question is when will Stowe/Vail announce the rest of their pass options for Stowe. Sugarbush's early prices are only valid until May 3rd. If they are waiting until after the deal closes and they are expecting that to happen around May 1, that leaves little time for them to announce passes and for people to make decisions.

thetrailboss · Mar 27, 2017

cdskier said:
The problem with that thought from a Stowe perspective is the Epic Local pass on the Epic website says it is only good for 10 days at Stowe, Vail, Beaver Creek, and Whistler combined. So for a Stowe skier, that pass is pretty much useless.

It will be interesting to see what (if anything) they end up doing for that 20-30s age range for Stowe. If they don't offer anything, Sugarbush will be a very tempting alternative for those groups then at $349 for 20s and $549 for 30s vs the full Epic pass at $849. One other consideration is if those people planned on making any western trips, then the extra money for the Epic could make sense.

The other question is when will Stowe/Vail announce the rest of their pass options for Stowe. Sugarbush's early prices are only valid until May 3rd. If they are waiting until after the deal closes and they are expecting that to happen around May 1, that leaves little time for them to announce passes and for people to make decisions.

So to clarify, I would expect them to modify that Local Epic Offering. It's interesting that they have not yet. Perhaps offer a Stowe-only version. I do not expect them to create a specific 30's only product because their line theoretically has an offering that is close to that pricerange. I think that Sugarbush is unusual in that they have made so many different products for so many different markets. Vail does not play that game--they want you committed to them and to buy one of their limited products.

BenedictGomez · Mar 27, 2017

thetrailboss said:
Yes, it will be very interesting to see what Vail does with Stowe's pricing.

My guess is that it's going to be a great deal next year. This will be done to drive initial volume. Then they'll slowly increase the price over the years to increase revenue and aid in retention. That seems to be their M.O.

dlague said:
Is Vail really interested in the Vermont College crowd?

Doubtful.

cdskier · Mar 27, 2017

thetrailboss said:
So to clarify, I would expect them to modify that Local Epic Offering. It's interesting that they have not yet. Perhaps offer a Stowe-only version. I do not expect them to create a specific 30's only product because their line theoretically has an offering that is close to that pricerange. I think that Sugarbush is unusual in that they have made so many different products for so many different markets. Vail does not play that game--they want you committed to them and to buy one of their limited products.

Ironically it was Stowe that caused Sugarbush to create their For 30s pass. SB had the For 20s pass for 5 years now (and that pass made a lot of sense), but it wasn't until last year when Stowe announced in the late summer that they were doing a Young Adult pass that covered up to age 34 that SB responded and created an "Early 30s" pass which they've now changed to cover the entire 30s age range for next year. I didn't particularly think it was necessary to do that, but it benefits me so who am I to complain?

As for a Stowe-only local pass version, I have a hard time thinking they will end up doing that. The Epic pass itself is already half the price of Stowe's previous adult pass, so is there really a need? I would think Epic alone should have easily driven an increase in Stowe pass sales over previous years due to the cheap price. I think a cheaper local option in Stowe's case would only undercut their own Epic pass sales potentially and wouldn't really steal much from anyone else at this point.

Vail to buy Stowe?

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