Vail to buy Stowe? - Page 24

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  1. #231

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    So this is official now? Wonder when the new passes and lineups come out. Epic could now be a player, but would be more interested if they added a couple of more east areas. It will be interesting to see if Max Pass has any additions or subtractions. Let the games begin.

    Alex

    Lake Hopatcong, NJ

  2. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by farlep99 View Post
    The $50mil number makes sense only because of this nugget...

    "Other facilities such as the Stowe Mountain Lodge, Stowe Mountain Club, Stowe Country Club and certain real estate owned and held for potential future development will be retained by MMC (Mount Mansfield Co)."

    Real estate/potential future development was where any real potential value was for Vail. I am surprised that they bought it without that.
    This is a play by Vail to get skiers to come to their western resorts - period. This will result in more eastern skiers buying the Epic Pass, Stowe's numbers will rise creating a market for Vail to attract visitors to their bigger full accommodation resorts. This will definitely stir up the apple cart in New England.
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  3. #233
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    While it is an enticing thought of getting an epic pass, with only Stowe on it in the east I will look else where. If I got the pass they wouldn't get any more money out of me even if I went West to use it. I have connections with a house at Keystone so I could just crash there. Usually don't eat or drink at the vail resorts either when I am out there except a beer or 2.
    I was wondering if they would sell a more expensive eastern epic pass that included Stowe. When they bought the other non-Colorado resorts what was the price of a season pass before and after?
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  4. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by dlague View Post
    This is a play by Vail to get skiers to come to their western resorts - period. This will result in more eastern skiers buying the Epic Pass, Stowe's numbers will rise creating a market for Vail to attract visitors to their bigger full accommodation resorts. This will definitely stir up the apple cart in New England.
    I agree. Stowe’s existing clientele is probably the most attractive east coast customer base for Vail to buy. Stowe’s combination of accessibility from NYC, Boston and Montreal presents a huge opportunity to drive incremental Epic Pass sales beyond Stowe’s current season pass base.

    With respect to the real estate, my guess is that AIG and Vail disagreed over the effect that Vail’s purchase of Stowe will have on the local real estate market and Stowe’s real estate holdings around the ski area. The real estate guys at AIG aren’t stupid – they’re well aware that this type of purchase will be a boon to Stowe’s real estate prices just like it has been in Park City and other Vail-owned resorts.

    Bottom line: this acquisition is a drop in the bucket for a company of Vail’s size, Smuggler’s Notch is compelling (frankly, for traffic mediation more than anything), and once the effect of Vail’s ownership of Stowe is understood, AIG and Vail could re-visit the real estate sale.
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  5. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by VTKilarney View Post
    The one problem with Smuggs is the location. It's about 25 minutes farther to drive to than Stowe. That doesn't sound like a lot, but for some reason it feels like it is a lot further away.
    I don't think that's a problem at all (unfortunately).

    Alternatively, Smuggs is 30 minutes closer to drive to than Stowe (for Quebecois).

    Quote Originally Posted by eastern powder baby View Post

    once the effect of Vail’s ownership of Stowe is understood, AIG and Vail could re-visit the real estate sale.
    That's certainly a possibility.
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  6. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by VTKilarney View Post
    The one problem with Smuggs is the location. It's about 25 minutes farther to drive to than Stowe. That doesn't sound like a lot, but for some reason it feels like it is a lot further away. And of course it doesn't have the nice town like Stowe has. But if Vail can get land and permits, they could do something about that.
    As it stands, the traffic in Stowe village, the Mtn Rd, and the parking at the resort are already a total shit show on many weekends. How would cutting 25 minutes of drive time to Smuggs by having those people drive to and park at Stowe instead would be good for anybody?
    If Stowe and Smuggs were ever efficiently interconnected and under the same pass, the only way I see it working is that the Chittenden County crowd would park primarily on the Smuggs side. That would free up A LOT of traffic pressure on the Stowe side.
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  7. #237
    I still personally feel that the best west option for the east is the Max pass. I think that Max will be the entity that represents the biggest competitor to Vail's eastern move and to a lesser extent the resorts tied to it.

    How many people skiing K for $1,000 plus a $250 Max add on to go west will now ski Stowe and out west for > $400 less? I legitimately don't know how big that number is going to be, but I think that question (for all Max Add-On resorts) is where the biggest potential for shake up in the eastern ski world lies.

    It is not a major innovation to have western options on an eastern pass. The Max pass was really the pass that started that game (MC to a lesser extent), so I'm not sure how many eastern only skiers (like a lot of Sugarbush's skiers) Vail will gain versus just taking market share from other passes with western options.

  8. #238
    Note:
    At a bit under an hour, the drive times to Stowe vs Smuggs from Burlington is almost exactly the same with no traffic. However, traffic could easily add 20+ minutes on the Stowe drive.
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  9. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by eastern powder baby View Post

    Bottom line: this acquisition is a drop in the bucket for a company of Vail’s size, Smuggler’s Notch is compelling (frankly, for traffic mediation more than anything), and once the effect of Vail’s ownership of Stowe is understood, AIG and Vail could re-visit the real estate sale.
    Great point & I think a re-visit of the real estate in the future by Vail & MMC is inevitable. Because other than increasing the number of Epic passes sold, what is Vail really buying? Yeah they can run the resort & make some money on that, but there isn't exactly exciting growth potential there. Again, how much more can they grow skier visits/profits/etc with the current infrastructure? Maybe a little. So while I don't think it will be losing the company any money (although if there are more winters like last year there will be down years) it's not really a big gainer either. Of course other than the increased Epic pass sales & presumed trips out west to Vail owned resorts.


  10. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by farlep99 View Post
    Great point & I think a re-visit of the real estate in the future by Vail & MMC is inevitable. Because other than increasing the number of Epic passes sold, what is Vail really buying? Yeah they can run the resort & make some money on that, but there isn't exactly exciting growth potential there. Again, how much more can they grow skier visits/profits/etc with the current infrastructure? Maybe a little. So while I don't think it will be losing the company any money (although if there are more winters like last year there will be down years) it's not really a big gainer either. Of course other than the increased Epic pass sales & presumed trips out west to Vail owned resorts.
    There definitely has to be a more in the works for Vail. This is too unlike the rest of their acquisitions thus far.

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