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Why arent they all "demo" bindings?

BenedictGomez

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So as I'm frequently inclined to do in the off-season, I bought another pair of used skis cheaply yesterday. These are from the 2016 demo fleet, and it got me thinking, why aren't all bindings (except specialized or high-end racing) mounted on demo rails?

I've been on many pairs of skis over the last decade with demo bindings, and in my quiver I now only own 1 pair of skis "traditionally" mounted. It's to the point I view traditionally mounted bindings as a negative, as they're much harder to sell if they fall out of favor in your quiver. There's no decrease in performance with demo bindings, and the utility aspect of very quickly adjusting the BSL to let anyone else use them is fantastic.

So why aren't all recreational skis mounted on mondo-adjustable bindings?
 

drjeff

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So as I'm frequently inclined to do in the off-season, I bought another pair of used skis cheaply yesterday. These are from the 2016 demo fleet, and it got me thinking, why aren't all bindings (except specialized or high-end racing) mounted on demo rails?

I've been on many pairs of skis over the last decade with demo bindings, and in my quiver I now only own 1 pair of skis "traditionally" mounted. It's to the point I view traditionally mounted bindings as a negative, as they're much harder to sell if they fall out of favor in your quiver. There's no decrease in performance with demo bindings, and the utility aspect of very quickly adjusting the BSL to let anyone else use them is fantastic.

So why aren't all recreational skis mounted on mondo-adjustable bindings?

The 2 reasons I've heard from multiple ski shop people is #1 the weight of them, as they're noticeably heavier than non demo bindings (something I can personally attest to from multiple pairs of skis in my families quiver)

and #2 - they become more of a theft target as no remounting would be needed once someone walks off with them
 

benski

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Demo bindings bother my shoulder when I cary the skis but skis without demo binding do not.
 

tumbler

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The 2 reasons I've heard from multiple ski shop people is #1 the weight of them, as they're noticeably heavier than non demo bindings (something I can personally attest to from multiple pairs of skis in my families quiver)

and #2 - they become more of a theft target as no remounting would be needed once someone walks off with them

Bingo
 

Not Sure

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I'm thinking the DIN settings are lower , I bought a set of skis a couple years back and blew out of them in the worst possible places ,could never trust them .
 

abc

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Just look at non-demo "system" bindings. It never really gain popularity. So far, those are only offered on carving intermediate or below groomer skis.

People don't care for the ability to change BSL all tge time. So why carry the extra weight?
 

jack97

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the market has indicated what they feel about demo, integrated bindings and adjustable bindings. The two latter items, integrated systems was introduced around 2006 or so and never caught on. Maybe it was due a limited brand selection for bindings or the higher cost. As far as adjustable, marker's royal family has some but the word is that to make it light weight, it became flimsy and higher in cost.

As far as the regular mounts go, imo, they address the majority of the market such as cost and other considerations that the above does not afford; which is brand selection, risers and ramp angle. I only buy Look/Rossi and Sally b/c of the elastic travel they have in the release point. I never liked the old markers b/c they would pre release on me in the bump field. If you go to a racer type ski shop the techs can show all shims they have for risers and ramp adjustment.
 
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Right on Jack, that hits it

Plus there are no real gains from a rental binding for private ownership. Most bindings will adjust to bsl changes as a person buys different boots. If the skis and bindings are sold to a person whose bsl do not work, then there is space to do a second mount with the bindings. Only advantage is if you loan out skis.

I have always bought skis at price points I am ok with. I could be persuaded to spend more if the demo bindings allowed fore/aft movement of the binding so I could try different mount points.
 

BenedictGomez

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People don't care for the ability to change BSL all tge time. So why carry the extra weight?

True, but I've changed boots several times in the last 6'ish years, and I didnt have to redrill my entire quiver. I do realize AZ people are not typical examples of the average skier though, so you may have a good point.

Been awhile since I was in retail. But, as I recall.....25-30% higher cost.

That's way more than I would have guessed. If typical, I think that's likely the #1 reason. Tough to compete financially if that's the true differential.

the market has indicated what they feel about demo, integrated bindings and adjustable bindings. The two latter items, integrated systems was introduced around 2006 or so and never caught on. Maybe it was due a limited brand selection for bindings or the higher cost.

IIRC, they tended to only be offered on lower-end beginner and intermediate skis? Seems like children's skis would be a good candidate too given how fast kid's grow, though of course if they grow too fast, they would need new skis anyway.

Plus there are no real gains from a rental binding for private ownership. Most bindings will adjust to bsl changes as a person buys different boots. If the skis and bindings are sold to a person whose bsl do not work, then there is space to do a second mount with the bindings.

I dont know if I'm an abnormal "tweener" on foot size, but I've had to redrill some skis in the past due to BSL changes.
 

thetrailboss

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The 2 reasons I've heard from multiple ski shop people is #1 the weight of them, as they're noticeably heavier than non demo bindings (something I can personally attest to from multiple pairs of skis in my families quiver)

and #2 - they become more of a theft target as no remounting would be needed once someone walks off with them

Exactly. I am OK with my bindings.
 
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True, but I've changed boots several times in the last 6'ish years, and I didnt have to redrill my entire quiver. I do realize AZ people are not typical examples of the average skier though, so you may have a good point.



That's way more than I would have guessed. If typical, I think that's likely the #1 reason. Tough to compete financially if that's the true differential.



IIRC, they tended to only be offered on lower-end beginner and intermediate skis? Seems like children's skis would be a good candidate too given how fast kid's grow, though of course if they grow too fast, they would need new skis anyway.



I dont know if I'm an abnormal "tweener" on foot size, but I've had to redrill some skis in the past due to BSL changes.

For a while when plates were big, a lot of the advanced skis were offered with an integrated binding. Fortunately the ski world revolted strongly enough (passionate skiers in particular) to end this.

Most alpine bindings should adjust for at least 1 boot size up or down. The Look turntable heel and its siblings are the only exception I know of among the popular bindings that sometimes have difficulty. Now if the original mount had the binding set towards one end of the range a remount would be necessary if the boot change went further in that direction.




Other reasons besides weight and cost to not like demo bindings: stack height, dead spot at boot due to long mount footprint, inferior binding engagement as compared to a worm drive heel, less resale value
 
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deadheadskier

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I've never really enjoyed the snow feel of a demo binding. For the type of skiing I mostly prefer (natural ungroomed surfaces) I prefer a binding that's as low to the ski as possible. I do own one system binding, which came on a higher end Fischer ski and I'm not really a fan of it. I don't really care for how a Marker Duke skis. The case with both is being raised up off the ski.

I also don't really sell my gear nor do I buy used stuff. Only have sold one set of my skis in my life because I truly never liked them and they were new enough to still have value worth the effort of selling them. In that case I kept the binding and sold the ski flat. I also don't really have much of an interest in messing around with mount points and have used the same size boot since high school. So, at least for me, demo bindings have minimal appeal.



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BenedictGomez

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I've never really enjoyed the snow feel of a demo binding.

In all the regular bindings and demo binding (owned and tested) I've ever tried, and god only knows how many pairs of skis that represents, 50?, 75?, 100?, no clue; I've never felt any difference between regular bindings and demo bindings in terms of "snow feel" or skiing ability.

My next question would be wondering if you're the oddball on this or if I'm the oddball on this? LOL
 

deadheadskier

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Not sure, but I do know others who feel the way I do. Being elevated off the ski makes a big difference to me in how a ski feels. Weight is a factor as well. That is why you see racers using heavy riser plates, but you don't see bump skiers using them.

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