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Mount Snow: Inside Track

MountSnow

Industry Rep
Industry Rep
Joined
Nov 10, 2017
Messages
205
Points
0
Location
Mount Snow, Vermont
Website
www.mountsnow.com
Given how many of you have questioned our decisions regarding Mountain Operations choices we thought it best to see if we might be able to explain some of our thinking.

- First off we’d like to address the following rumor, Mount Snow has not fully expended our Snowmaking Budget for the 2017-18 winter season. It should be clear that after the difficult snow year in 2015-16 that we are willing to go beyond our budget to provide the best possible product to our guests. That said, Mount Snow also has a responsibility as a company to operate as fiscally responsible as possible. And with 80+ days of the season still ahead of us, we need to make sure we are managing our expenses so we can continue to provide a great product for the remainder of the season.

- Secondly, with weather, there are far more things to take into consideration than just temperature, wind for example is a major one. Firing up the system on a day like Tuesday or Wednesday with 45+mph winds would make more snow on the tops of trees than on the trail. It is hard to resurface in these conditions and be efficient. It can also be too cold to resurface. Why too cold? When temperatures drop to single digits or negatives, to keep guns from freezing up we would have to be pumping out a lot of water to each gun, more than for a typical resurface, this means more energy to keep the system operating and a lot of grooming to keep up. This means MOGULS everywhere! Resurface temps in the high teens and low 20’s allow Mount Snow to run a lot of guns on a lot of trails to get a quick resurface. Much of what we expect to accomplish on Friday.

- Midweek vs. weekend. This really is a question of when it’s best to make snow for all of our guests. This week, making snow on Friday will help us provide a great product for skiers this weekend. Next week, we’ll be making snow during the midweek, so midweek skiers may benefit. When evaluating when to make snow, we consider how well the trails will hold up and ski under the forecasted skier and rider traffic.

Decisions are made with the best intel available at the time. The weather often changes and we have to live with decisions. There are a group of five or more in Mountain Operations looking at all the variables and getting together to offer opinions. We think we have some of the best in the business on this team, and we think we make good decisions most of the time.
 

skiur

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 27, 2012
Messages
1,577
Points
113
What is wrong with moguls?....too cold to blow snow, that's a funny one, maybe if it was -25 or colder but it didn't even get below 0. And blowing snow in the wind just makes the trees better!
 

bdfreetuna

New member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
4,300
Points
0
Location
keep the faith
And blowing snow in the wind just makes the trees better!

After witnessing Mt Snow's firepower first hand this season, I think the next step is turning Mount Snow into the world's first skiable snow globe.

With climate control and a full schedule of "weather" (it either dumps snow or Blue Bird(TM) on alternating days).
 

MountSnow

Industry Rep
Industry Rep
Joined
Nov 10, 2017
Messages
205
Points
0
Location
Mount Snow, Vermont
Website
www.mountsnow.com
After witnessing Mt Snow's firepower first hand this season, I think the next step is turning Mount Snow into the world's first skiable snow globe.

With climate control and a full schedule of "weather" (it either dumps snow or Blue Bird(TM) on alternating days).

Now there's an idea. I wonder if the U.S Forrest Service will go for that?
 

slatham

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
2,413
Points
83
Location
LI/Bromley
Pretty extensive snowmaking for a "Light" resurfacing. That said, if I were to be at Mt Snow this weekend I'd be disappointed that no trails on the North Face saw snowmaking this week.
 

drjeff

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
19,183
Points
113
Location
Brooklyn, CT
The trails that they have just groomed, and not made snow on (major snowmaking effort started a bit after 8 this morning as I was driving in) are skiing quite well. Machine groomed snow on a firm base, easy to carve. The warming temps tomorrow should help soften things when the likely masses show up.. Solid crowd for a Friday today

Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app
 

Jully

Active member
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Messages
2,487
Points
38
Location
Boston, MA
Given how many of you have questioned our decisions regarding Mountain Operations choices we thought it best to see if we might be able to explain some of our thinking.

- First off we’d like to address the following rumor, Mount Snow has not fully expended our Snowmaking Budget for the 2017-18 winter season. It should be clear that after the difficult snow year in 2015-16 that we are willing to go beyond our budget to provide the best possible product to our guests. That said, Mount Snow also has a responsibility as a company to operate as fiscally responsible as possible. And with 80+ days of the season still ahead of us, we need to make sure we are managing our expenses so we can continue to provide a great product for the remainder of the season.

- Secondly, with weather, there are far more things to take into consideration than just temperature, wind for example is a major one. Firing up the system on a day like Tuesday or Wednesday with 45+mph winds would make more snow on the tops of trees than on the trail. It is hard to resurface in these conditions and be efficient. It can also be too cold to resurface. Why too cold? When temperatures drop to single digits or negatives, to keep guns from freezing up we would have to be pumping out a lot of water to each gun, more than for a typical resurface, this means more energy to keep the system operating and a lot of grooming to keep up. This means MOGULS everywhere! Resurface temps in the high teens and low 20’s allow Mount Snow to run a lot of guns on a lot of trails to get a quick resurface. Much of what we expect to accomplish on Friday.

- Midweek vs. weekend. This really is a question of when it’s best to make snow for all of our guests. This week, making snow on Friday will help us provide a great product for skiers this weekend. Next week, we’ll be making snow during the midweek, so midweek skiers may benefit. When evaluating when to make snow, we consider how well the trails will hold up and ski under the forecasted skier and rider traffic.

Decisions are made with the best intel available at the time. The weather often changes and we have to live with decisions. There are a group of five or more in Mountain Operations looking at all the variables and getting together to offer opinions. We think we have some of the best in the business on this team, and we think we make good decisions most of the time.

Love the in depth description and communication! Really makes a community like AZ that much better and makes Mt Snow look great as well.
 

Pez

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2016
Messages
336
Points
18
Location
WMASS
I'm at snow right now. Main face major trails have a lot of ice. Sunbrook is pretty good though. Springlike. Haven't been over to the north face yet.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone
 

asnowmobiler

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
364
Points
18
Location
Jim Thorpe, PA.
Sonny was the best place on the mountain, the north side was a Glacier.
Surprisingly the ice was edgeable if you were willing to trust your edges.
 

Euler

Active member
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
1,063
Points
36
Location
Southern Vermont
On Sunday (1/28) most trails at Mt. Snow (and many resorts, from what I've been reading) could charitably be described as primary surface of boilerplate interspersed with patches of blue and yellow ice. I did find that Ridge and Snowdance had plenty of soft snow to have a great time with, though...just took some hunting and perseverance to find the right trails for the right time of day. Crowds were TINY....no wait to board the Bluebird in a midwinter Sunday....not good for the mtns finances I'm sure.
 

Jcb890

Active member
Joined
Feb 25, 2015
Messages
1,741
Points
38
Location
Central MA
On Sunday (1/28) most trails at Mt. Snow (and many resorts, from what I've been reading) could charitably be described as primary surface of boilerplate interspersed with patches of blue and yellow ice. I did find that Ridge and Snowdance had plenty of soft snow to have a great time with, though...just took some hunting and perseverance to find the right trails for the right time of day. Crowds were TINY....no wait to board the Bluebird in a midwinter Sunday....not good for the mtns finances I'm sure.
The crowds sound like the opposite on Saturday. Saturday was the busiest I've ever seen it... but my brother said last weekend was even busier.
 

Jcb890

Active member
Joined
Feb 25, 2015
Messages
1,741
Points
38
Location
Central MA
Went to Mt. Snow Saturday for the first time in a few weeks... holy shit they've lost a lot of snow! I imagine everywhere has, but wow.

The place was PACKED. It was the first time I've been to Mt. Snow and actually felt like it was too crowded. The Grand Summit and Bluebird both regularly had people lined up to the end of the ropes. Two of the people operating the Bluebird line most of the day (I won't name names or describe their looks as I do not want to throw workers under the bus) were absolutely inept. That seems to be a common theme when 1 of these people is there unfortunately... this is the 3rd time I have noticed it. Seriously, how hard is it to count to 6? And completely stopping the line to allow you to count to 6 each time... just awesome work. That was painful. But, thankfully it was nice enough to go over to the Grand Summit Express most of the time.

The couple of "Slow Down!" Crews over on Long John were annoying. They actually told my wife to slow down on the flatter middle section (2nd set of SDC people) which was laughable since she does not ride fast and was not going fast at all. I gave them a thumbs up as they yelled at me. :thumbup:

The snow quality was fun due to the high temps. Underneath was a mix of boilerplate and glacier. We really need an extended period of cold weather and possible some real snow to help things out.
 

jmgard

New member
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Messages
64
Points
0
Location
Waltham MA
I was at Snow on Saturday as well, it was the busiest day I have ever skied there (my 3rd year having a Mt. Snow pass). Gave me some flashbacks to Loon pre-South Peak. I'm glad I learned to ski as a kid by dodging traffic on Bear Claw and Grand Junction up there, otherwise I'd be so freaked out on a day that crowded. Great snow on Ridge and in Sunbrook but North Face was very scraped off. One kid I was skiing with slid out on the last drop/left turn of Plummet and was stopped by a tree, luckily besides a beat-up hip he was okay. I am a big fan of Mount Snow and it's effectively my "home mountain" these days but there's a reason I try to only ski there midweek. And never park at Main base unless I get there at like 7:30... Sundance wasn't bad at least.
 

Jcb890

Active member
Joined
Feb 25, 2015
Messages
1,741
Points
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Location
Central MA
I was at Snow on Saturday as well, it was the busiest day I have ever skied there (my 3rd year having a Mt. Snow pass). Gave me some flashbacks to Loon pre-South Peak. I'm glad I learned to ski as a kid by dodging traffic on Bear Claw and Grand Junction up there, otherwise I'd be so freaked out on a day that crowded. Great snow on Ridge and in Sunbrook but North Face was very scraped off. One kid I was skiing with slid out on the last drop/left turn of Plummet and was stopped by a tree, luckily besides a beat-up hip he was okay. I am a big fan of Mount Snow and it's effectively my "home mountain" these days but there's a reason I try to only ski there midweek. And never park at Main base unless I get there at like 7:30... Sundance wasn't bad at least.
We got to Sundance a bit before 9 and got the last parking spot.

Agree to disagree about the snow on Sunbrook. It was OK and edge-able, but very far from great. Some decent snow on the right-hand side, but, again, not good or great. Long John/Deer Run and Ridge did have good snow, so did NE Time and Snowdance. Middle to lower section of Canyon was decent too. The top of Canyon was all scraped off and icy. Sunbrook was also crazy busy. Down towards the bottom of Thanks Walt it was a shit-show.
 

jmgard

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Nov 30, 2016
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Waltham MA
We got to Sundance a bit before 9 and got the last parking spot.

Agree to disagree about the snow on Sunbrook. It was OK and edge-able, but very far from great. Some decent snow on the right-hand side, but, again, not good or great. Long John/Deer Run and Ridge did have good snow, so did NE Time and Snowdance. Middle to lower section of Canyon was decent too. The top of Canyon was all scraped off and icy. Sunbrook was also crazy busy. Down towards the bottom of Thanks Walt it was a shit-show.

I guess "great" would be a bit of an exaggeration for Sunbrook but compared to the ice sheets on North face it was definitely a bit better. Very busy towards the bottom though, I will agree with you on that. Snow really needs to put snowmaking on the outer Sunbrook trails as that would help spread out the crowds a bit, especially if the HSQ there is coming soon. As it is now it would just dump tons of people onto Thanks Walt and Clound Nine on non-natural days.
 
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