Mount Snow: Inside Track

180 said:

Anyplace to get mt snow ticket deals?

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REI has them for $72, which is about the same price as an advance weekend ticket but you have date flexibility which comes in handy.

https://www.rei.com/product/119862/mount-snow-anytime-adult-lift-ticket

Another epic fail at Mount Snow today! Summit Express went down at 10:45am and now closed for the day. Bluebird starting having issues as well with lots of stoppages and lift maintenance scrambling between the two lifts. Took me 45min to get up to the Summit. Hero snow conditions though.

The downtime numbers on the Grand Summit over the last four or five years are pretty staggering. I don’t have sources on the inside so to speak but I’m so curious if they have been told by Poma or whoever that the numerous repairs they’ve done in that time span were just putting lipstick on a pig.

It’ll never happen, but grabbing the Barnstormer and moving it to replace Canyon(it’s about 50ft shorter, but 100ft more vert). It might just pulled some crowds off Bluebird.


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Method9455 said:

REI has them for $72, which is about the same price as an advance weekend ticket but you have date flexibility which comes in handy.

https://www.rei.com/product/119862/mount-snow-anytime-adult-lift-ticket

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Do you get an e-ticket right away when buying from REI? Was going to get one last minute but it was looking like they physically mail a ticket. Thanks



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Griswold said:

Do you get an e-ticket right away when buying from REI? Was going to get one last minute but it was looking like they physically mail a ticket. Thanks

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I'm not sure abt Mt Snow but I purchased Killington Tix ($89) a couple of weeks ago from their store in Princeton. Received the electronic tix right from the REI store, woke up next AM and right to the slopes. I'd assume Mt Snow is the same

Griswold said:

Do you get an e-ticket right away when buying from REI? Was going to get one last minute but it was looking like they physically mail a ticket. Thanks



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No e-ticket, it's a physical ticket and then you have to go to a window.

sull1102 said:

The downtime numbers on the Grand Summit over the last four or five years are pretty staggering. I don’t have sources on the inside so to speak but I’m so curious if they have been told by Poma or whoever that the numerous repairs they’ve done in that time span were just putting lipstick on a pig.

It’ll never happen, but grabbing the Barnstormer and moving it to replace Canyon(it’s about 50ft shorter, but 100ft more vert). It might just pulled some crowds off Bluebird.


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Don't you think replacing Nitro with it would be a wiser choice? That Main Face already has serious uphill capacity, assuming a reliable GSE.

Newpylong said:

Don't you think replacing Nitro with it would be a wiser choice? That Main Face already has serious uphill capacity, assuming a reliable GSE.

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The reality is, especially if the new "normal" crowds are going to be exactly that, the new normal, in the coming years, and presuming that Vail wants to follow through with Mount Snow's/Peak's plan to expand the snowmaking to essentially 100%, then one could make the case that when the time for replacement/upgrades come for various core lifts at Mount Snow, that upgrading Nitro and Canyon to HS6's, upgrading Heavy Metal to a FG4, and I will even throw it out there that the GSE could even be upgraded to a HS6, isn't that far fetched an idea. Personally Id also love to see them upgrade the Sundance Triple to a HSQ so that folks lapping either Long John/Deer Run or the entire Uncle's/Ridge/Hop/Shootout/South Bowl section of the mountain could do so without having to go back to the main base.

Add in the probably only a matter of time upgrade of the Sunbrook Quad to some type of highspeed lift, and my version of ski area management "arm chair quarterbacking" of Mount Snow's "needs" easily just spent probably in the neighborhood of $40 million or so....

All across the ski industry, as many of the lifts, both highspeed and fixed grips that were put up in the late 80's/early 90's expansion boom time near 40 years of service, there's going to be some interesting decisions to make about when and how lifts will be replaced, and if the mountain chooses to use this as a time to re think some of their trail layouts and pod designs to reflect modern use....

drjeff said:

The reality is, especially if the new "normal" crowds are going to be exactly that, the new normal, in the coming years, and presuming that Vail wants to follow through with Mount Snow's/Peak's plan to expand the snowmaking to essentially 100%, then one could make the case that when the time for replacement/upgrades come for various core lifts at Mount Snow, that upgrading Nitro and Canyon to HS6's, upgrading Heavy Metal to a FG4, and I will even throw it out there that the GSE could even be upgraded to a HS6, isn't that far fetched an idea. Personally Id also love to see them upgrade the Sundance Triple to a HSQ so that folks lapping either Long John/Deer Run or the entire Uncle's/Ridge/Hop/Shootout/South Bowl section of the mountain could do so without having to go back to the main base.

Add in the probably only a matter of time upgrade of the Sunbrook Quad to some type of highspeed lift, and my version of ski area management "arm chair quarterbacking" of Mount Snow's "needs" easily just spent probably in the neighborhood of $40 million or so....

All across the ski industry, as many of the lifts, both highspeed and fixed grips that were put up in the late 80's/early 90's expansion boom time near 40 years of service, there's going to be some interesting decisions to make about when and how lifts will be replaced, and if the mountain chooses to use this as a time to re think some of their trail layouts and pod designs to reflect modern use....

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Think what a shit show the trails will be then with all that uphill compacity. Bad enough now.
Should go the other way and cut capacity. People will stop going and crowds will not be as prevalent after a few years.


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I agree - I don't think Mount Snow trails could handle additional uphill capacity, unless you double ski patrol for all the accidents that will take place. Even on the busiest days, I think things are well balanced when most trails are open (wait times, lift ride length, skiers on trail), assuming they have all lifts running, which is a big assumption. Only exception is Sundance Triple, which would be better with less chairs moving at a higher speed.

Further, I think the ride time length for Sunbrook quad is fine, but the lift should be upgraded to something that novices can get on and off easily. In it's current state, people get knocked down getting on it, or fall getting off the steep and often icy exit ramp, and so it stops often and that increases ride length.

In a perfect world Vail would buy haystack and run that under the epic pass. Just having a nearby place would help alleviate crowds at snow.

That will probably never happen.

I’ve stated here in the past I’m against a HSQ on sunbrook but I think it’s inevitable at this point. Love a small lodge at the base though. Relax get a snack type place.



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Smellytele said:

Think what a shit show the trails will be then with all that uphill compacity. Bad enough now.
Should go the other way and cut capacity. People will stop going and crowds will not be as prevalent after a few years.


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njdiver85 said:

I agree - I don't think Mount Snow trails could handle additional uphill capacity, unless you double ski patrol for all the accidents that will take place. Even on the busiest days, I think things are well balanced when most trails are open (wait times, lift ride length, skiers on trail), assuming they have all lifts running, which is a big assumption. Only exception is Sundance Triple, which would be better with less chairs moving at a higher speed.

Further, I think the ride time length for Sunbrook quad is fine, but the lift should be upgraded to something that novices can get on and off easily. In it's current state, people get knocked down getting on it, or fall getting off the steep and often icy exit ramp, and so it stops often and that increases ride length.

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When the terrain is limited, yup, it gets crowded with it's current capacity. When you have basically every trail open on the main face, something that would become more often the case for more of the season with a snowmaking expansion, there's plenty of acres of quiet terrain available for added bodies being brought uphill, especially if you get off of the core trails.

Totally agree that some type of small lodge/yurt down in Sunbrook, when a lift upgrade happens would be a GOOD thing.

The Haystack thing, well I guess we'll know within about a month or so if Vail has any interest in it, when the bidding window closes....

Smellytele said:

Think what a shit show the trails will be then with all that uphill compacity. Bad enough now.
Should go the other way and cut capacity. People will stop going and crowds will not be as prevalent after a few years.


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High speed lifts dont have to mean increased uphill capacity depending on chair count and spacing

Smellytele said:

Think what a shit show the trails will be then with all that uphill compacity. Bad enough now.
Should go the other way and cut capacity. People will stop going and crowds will not be as prevalent after a few years.


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Exactly!

A highspeed quad and a fixed grip quad, that both load at 6 second intervals, will have the exact same hourly capacity

The ride time will be different, the crowds that a high speed lift attracts vs a fixed grip lift may be different, but the capacity would be the same.

Heck, if Mount Snow wanted to increase the capacity out of the base, the thing they could do, without making major changes, is purchase more chairs for the Bluebird, as they chose to go with 9 second spacing over the more standard 6 second spacing for both the ability to control capacity a bit and in theory make it "easier" for the public to load/unload from it...

icecoast1 said:

High speed lifts dont have to mean increased uphill capacity depending on chair count and spacing

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sull1102 said:

The downtime numbers on the Grand Summit over the last four or five years are pretty staggering. I don’t have sources on the inside so to speak but I’m so curious if they have been told by Poma or whoever that the numerous repairs they’ve done in that time span were just putting lipstick on a pig.

It’ll never happen, but grabbing the Barnstormer and moving it to replace Canyon(it’s about 50ft shorter, but 100ft more vert). It might just pulled some crowds off Bluebird.


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The "Yan-omas" are a disaster. Not sure what Poma did when they retrofitted all of them in the East, but seems like we got the short stock on those (because all Yan HSQ's had to be retrofitted over 1 summer, Poma took the East, Dopp mostly took the west and I've seen at least one at DV that got retrofitted with pre merger Garaventa grips). The Dopps seem to run much better out west. Barker is a mess at Sunday River, the new racing T-Bar moves faster now! Killington has seemingly made out better, may help they have four of the things in their lift fleet.

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drjeff said:

The reality is, especially if the new "normal" crowds are going to be exactly that, the new normal, in the coming years, and presuming that Vail wants to follow through with Mount Snow's/Peak's plan to expand the snowmaking to essentially 100%, then one could make the case that when the time for replacement/upgrades come for various core lifts at Mount Snow, that upgrading Nitro and Canyon to HS6's, upgrading Heavy Metal to a FG4, and I will even throw it out there that the GSE could even be upgraded to a HS6, isn't that far fetched an idea. Personally Id also love to see them upgrade the Sundance Triple to a HSQ so that folks lapping either Long John/Deer Run or the entire Uncle's/Ridge/Hop/Shootout/South Bowl section of the mountain could do so without having to go back to the main base.

Add in the probably only a matter of time upgrade of the Sunbrook Quad to some type of highspeed lift, and my version of ski area management "arm chair quarterbacking" of Mount Snow's "needs" easily just spent probably in the neighborhood of $40 million or so....

All across the ski industry, as many of the lifts, both highspeed and fixed grips that were put up in the late 80's/early 90's expansion boom time near 40 years of service, there's going to be some interesting decisions to make about when and how lifts will be replaced, and if the mountain chooses to use this as a time to re think some of their trail layouts and pod designs to reflect modern use....

Click to expand...

IMO when Sundance and Ego Alley get replaced they should just buy fixed grip quads. Mount Snow seems more susceptible to wind holds than most VT mountains and they also get more frequent ice storms. They need fallback lifts on the main face. Maybe Ego Alley deserves to be a fixed grip + loading carpet, I think that's the optimal cost / capacity / reliability / ride time tradeoff, but it gets used most when the high speeds are down. I'm not sure when those need to get replaced though, they run so few hours each season it's hard to say how many more years they will last.

I think the next lift to get replaced will be Sunbrook, and that's probably going to be high speed. A faster lift would draw more people to the least crowded face of the mountain.

I'm sure they'll eventually replace the Grand Summit Express. That has to be one of the least reliable major lifts in the east. But they're not actually maxing out the Bluebird aside from Saturdays. It's probably better overall to replace a bunch of the secondary lifts than buy another big HS6.

When Grand Summit is finally replaced, I would like to see it and Ego Alley replaced with one lift, a HSQ, on the Grand Summit alignment but have it shortened to terminate where Ego currently does. Then also replace Sundance with a HSQ on a new alignment starting at the same location, going up to the summit terminating where Grand Summit does today.

Unless the Vail shakeup changes thing, they've stated on record over and over Ego, or another fixed grip lift in its location will never be removed. Without a fixed grip option on the Main Face and Carinthia they are essentially shutdown during icing events. They have so many Yan parts and that thing runs so little hours, I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon.

I like your idea but extending Sundance to the summit would be a permitting challenge, that would be a substantial amount of cutting for a new liftline between South Ridge and Ego. The Sundance pod is highly underutilized because the lift barely runs and lack of snowmaking over there, and going to the summit with the lift would not really fix that as those trails are not easily accessible from the summit without going down one of the Johns. I think what happens all depends on what they plan to do with the Sundance base area. I know the last iteration of the Master Plan has the base lodge coming out, a new HSQ starting down by the parking lot and ending where Tumbleweed does now essentially. The Seasons Double will be removed as well. Once snowmaking goes in on Hop and Shootout, Sundance pod becomes more valuable and it makes sense to look at what to do with the lift. Does the same setup make sense (with two HSQ replacements), or going back to 1 HSQ (like Sundance used to be), or something else? Who knows... I personally think a carpet loading FGQ to replace Tumbleweed and a HSQ to replace Sundance (both as is) makes the most sense in the current base area setup.

https://www.saminfo.com/headline-news/9538-leadership-changes-in-vail-resorts-eastern-region

Queue up the "Happy Dance" from FGBM

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So how will this effect Snow?

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