Epic Pass just got more Epic - Page 15

AlpineZone

Page 15 of 32 FirstFirst ... 5131415161725 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 313
  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by slatham View Post
    Epic just got less Epic. A-Basin is pulling out of the Epic pass. Too many people on the Epic pass resulting in it being too crowded. This was always one of the issues people theorized would occur. Interesting to see if other areas over time make same decision.
    Old new discussed earlier in the thread

    Sent from my SM-G930V using AlpineZone mobile app

    2012-2013 (39)
    2013-2014 (36)
    2014-2015 (51)
    2015-2016 (47)

    2016-2017 target - 50

    If you take what the mountain gives you, you will always have fun!

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by cdskier View Post
    Do we really think Ikon contributes more to crowding at mountains than Epic? I would have thought sales of Epic passes were above the sales level for Ikon passes. And Ikon has far more limits for partner resorts (A-Basin was unlimited on Epic as a partner vs a max of 7 days if they were on Ikon). I'd be curious to see if A-Basin joins Ikon or maybe Mountain Collective. Their CEO already said they would be talking with other resorts and resort groups about opportunities. Could they also work to create some new smaller multi-mountain pass with only a select number of other resorts?
    Good point Ikon pass sales projections 250,000 passed Epic Pass (all versions) 925,000. Last year Vail hit 950,000 passes sold.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using AlpineZone mobile app
    2012-2013 (39)
    2013-2014 (36)
    2014-2015 (51)
    2015-2016 (47)

    2016-2017 target - 50

    If you take what the mountain gives you, you will always have fun!

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    I touched on this, but IMO the additional revenue would need to be great in order to alienate your customer base significantly. Is that likely? We dont know, but I doubt it.

    The reality is these pass partnerships are transient & potentially not long-lasting. So if that is indeed a given mountain's attitude, they better be careful whom they piss off in a frequently changing pass environment in which you do not retain sole decision-making power on property-mix, skier days, term, price, etc....
    On the flip side, I wonder if the transient skiers (who, for example, use up all their IKON days at partner resorts) tend to spend more additional money per day while there. (Do they need lodging, buy lunch, replace forgotten gloves etc etc at a much higher rate than a pass holder for that particular resort).

    To me it might make sense that a "full time" pass holder for a resort is more likely to be established with lodging already, more equipped to pack lunch, less likely to forget gloves or goggles at their home, than the person who has 7 days at a variety of resorts and moves from one to the next.

    In other words, who is more profitable for a resort, the season pass holder who skis 40 days, packs a lunch on most of them, never needs lodging, keeps all his gear at his place near the mountain or the IKON skier who comes 7 days a year, always buys lunch, might need lodging, maybe has to buy a piece of gear etc etc?

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by cdskier View Post
    Do we really think Ikon contributes more to crowding at mountains than Epic? I would have thought sales of Epic passes were above the sales level for Ikon passes. And Ikon has far more limits for partner resorts (A-Basin was unlimited on Epic as a partner vs a max of 7 days if they were on Ikon). I'd be curious to see if A-Basin joins Ikon or maybe Mountain Collective. Their CEO already said they would be talking with other resorts and resort groups about opportunities. Could they also work to create some new smaller multi-mountain pass with only a select number of other resorts?
    Ikon and Epic have both had similar crowding effects even though Epic sold almost four times as many passes. It honestly depends on the existing market and the previous offerings. I think A-Basin will go to either Mountain Collective or will team up with Loveland and offer a Continental Divide pass. They could theoretically offer a free shuttle between the two resorts to help with the parking issues (it's only a 15-20 min drive) that have plagued A-Basin this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by cdskier View Post
    Here's a question with regards to crowds as a result of these cheap and/or multi-mountain passes...

    Where are these crowds coming from? According to stats, skier visits are down a bit from 10 years ago and about level with where they were 20 years ago. We keep hearing growth is relatively flat.

    Everyone can't possibly be seeing "more crowds" at their resort if those stats are accurate. So...

    A) Some areas are seeing less visits (who?)
    B) Skier visit stats are not accurate (or are MORE accurate now but were not accurate in the past)
    C) Less resorts to spread skiers out so the remaining resorts are absorbing crowds (personally not buying this too much as most resorts that have gone NELSAP are smaller ones and I don't see their loss as major contributors to crowds elsewhere)
    D) Change in skier habits - i.e. more people skiing weekends while less are skiing midweek
    E) Other - something else I'm not thinking of at the moment
    F) We're going to see a sizeable increase in skier visits when this season's stats come out
    A) Smaller ski resorts, including those out of business.
    B) Meh... Public companies definitely can't lie about these numbers, and private companies can twist them but straight up lying would be bad PR.
    C) In 1990/91, there were 569 ski resorts in the US. 2017/18 had 472. Even in a scenario with zero growth in total visits, that's almost 20% fewer mountains for the same number of skiers.
    D) The increase in development of ski-in/ski-out or within walking distance real estate has had a small, but somewhat noticeable impact. Skiers are able to wake up at the same time and be on the mountain earlier and until later. Also, with day pass prices increasing and fewer mountains offering limited hour passes (such as an afternoon or evening only pass), skiers feel inclined to ski more hours to make the day worth the price of admission.
    E) High speed lifts are a small contributor. Even though a high speed quad carries the same total number of skiers per hour as a fixed grip quad, riders spend about half as much time on the lift and are then able to ski more laps, which is more time on the trail, which leads to more pileup at the base of lifts, etc. Also, more people want to ride a high speed lift compared to a fixed grip and they will tend to cluster disproportionally (meaning a parable fixed grip may have a lower ride time including lift line). This has sometimes resulted in ski resorts removing secondary lifts and some capacity.
    Also the advent of "cut the line" passes at some mountains increase lines. If an average wait time is 5 minutes and there are 10 skiers, there will be 50 minutes of total wait time needed for 10 skiers to load the chair. Now, if just one of those skiers has a wait time of 0 minutes because he cuts the line with his pass, the other nine skiers need to now wait an average 5.5 minutes, which is a 10% increase. There are studies that have been done on the effect FastPass has had on ride wait times at Disney, and this is the same exact concept.
    F) This has been an excellent winter out West and there was a good early season in the Northeast (hopefully good March in store as well). This should lead to skier visitation numbers above preseason expectations.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by skitheeast45 View Post
    B) Meh... Public companies definitely can't lie about these numbers, and private companies can twist them but straight up lying would be bad PR.
    I didn't mean they were lying about numbers. I'm referring more to accuracy due to technology changes. Today we can get an exact skier visit count of each season passholder thanks to scanning of passes. 20 years ago we didn't have that and resorts often had to roughly estimate the number of skier visits per season pass.

    Quote Originally Posted by skitheeast45 View Post
    C) In 1990/91, there were 569 ski resorts in the US. 2017/18 had 472. Even in a scenario with zero growth in total visits, that's almost 20% fewer mountains for the same number of skiers.
    Yes, but the number of mountains alone is not the key. Many of those were smaller mountains. You'd need to ideally look at the reduction in uphill capacity or something like that as a result of those ski resort closures which could change it to only a 5% reduction that needed to be redistributed elsewhere. Spread that over 472 resorts and the impact would be minimal.

  6. #146

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by skitheeast45 View Post
    https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/...b365126b0.html

    Jackson Hole with some hard data regarding Ikon effect.
    Living here, all of those Ikon visits have happened in the last six weeks or so. I expect that when all is said and done this season, it will end up being closer to 20-25%.

    What was really amazing, is that crowds were lighter this past holiday weekend than the previous 4 or so. I have never seen that happen where holiday crowd numbers actually decrease. All due to Ikon blackouts.
    Live Free or Die
    137 days 08-09
    16 days 09-10

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by skitheeast45 View Post
    https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/...b365126b0.html

    Jackson Hole with some hard data regarding Ikon effect.
    Less than a 14% increase, probably actually around 10% due to Ikon really isn't that bad in my book. It seems to me, at Jackson Hole at least, that the complaining about lines and resort crowds has been a thing for years as the resort experiences significant growth (3 record skier visit years in the past 5).

    Ikon just gives the crowds a name to yell in frustration. There's no saying that Jackson wouldn't have 8% higher skier visits this year without the Ikon too.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Living here, all of those Ikon visits have happened in the last six weeks or so. I expect that when all is said and done this season, it will end up being closer to 20-25%.
    If that is true then I take back my other post. 20-25% would be a legit increase due to just one pass product and not offset that much by declining ticket sales.

  10. #150
    thetrailboss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    NEK by Birth; Alta/Snowbird by Choice
    Posts
    27,504
    Quote Originally Posted by skitheeast45 View Post
    https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/...b365126b0.html

    Jackson Hole with some hard data regarding Ikon effect.
    This quote made me laugh....

    “But there’s no question it’s more crowded, and there are a lot more skiers who are not good skiers out there.”
    Live, Ski, or Die!


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:22 PM.