Jay Peak / Burke Sweepstakes

Jully · Jun 7, 2018

ss20 said:
I think I'd have to know more about who owns the big mountains up in Canada to answer this question... My guess is one of the companies/hills up there buys Jay to secure themselves against future swings in the CAD/USD.

RCR is the big player up there with St. Anne, Stoneham, and some in the Canadian Rockies. Know nothing about their financials. They just struck that deal with Vail this offseason, so they're trying to drive more business their way from America. Not sure if running Jay is the best way to do that though.

I don't think there is another major multi mountain operator up there.

thetrailboss · Jun 7, 2018

gregnye said:
What's weird here is that Burke is actually the better off mountain infastructure wise. First, burke doesn't need any new lifts--everything has already been upgraded. Hpwever they are just so far out of the way that it's just worth driving the extra distance to Jay

I personally don't want Peaks buying Jay. It would then be overrun with Mt. Snow people. Also judging from the fact that Peaks hasn't invested anything into Attitash, I doubt they would do anything to make Jay a flagship resort. And that's bad because Jay desperately needs lift improvements. I don't see Peaks going in and replacing the Bonnie chair anytime soon. Instead I predict all that would happen will be more crowds that would rather instagram "powder skiing" than people who actually wanna ski.

It is funny to hear someone say Burke “is so far out of the way” compared to Jay!

It is 3 hours from Boston. All interstate driving except for the last 8 miles.

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mbedle · Jun 7, 2018

thetrailboss said:
It is funny to hear someone say Burke “is so far out of the way” compared to Jay!

It is 3 hours from Boston. All interstate driving except for the last 8 miles.

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I was going to say the same thing. Right of of 91...

VTKilarney · Jun 7, 2018

I think that the State of Vermont should purchase Jay. They can sell just a few tickets a day and hold a lottery to determine who wins the tickets. This will allow the Burton family to ski all they want at a nearly private mountain.

Edd · Jun 7, 2018

mbedle said:
I was going to say the same thing. Right of of 91...

Yeah, Saddleback’s dilemma is more understandable than what’s happening with Burke. I’d think the market would be there which always brings me back to the marketing effort, whatever it is.

mbedle · Jun 7, 2018

VTKilarney said:
I think that the State of Vermont should purchase Jay. They can sell just a few tickets a day and hold a lottery to determine who wins the tickets. This will allow the Burton family to ski all they want at a nearly private mountain.

lol

gregnye · Jun 7, 2018

thetrailboss said:
It is funny to hear someone say Burke “is so far out of the way” compared to Jay!

It is 3 hours from Boston. All interstate driving except for the last 8 miles.

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It really is though. Yes it's three hours from Boston to Burke, but three hours from Boston could also get you to Killington (a significantly larger mountain) although that requires a lot more local road driving.

Also, to get to Burke requires you to pass by so many ski areas. You must pass Waterville, Loon, and Cannon, all of which are about the same size or larger than Burke. Going through Franconia Notch can also be slow in the winter, so you might as well just stop and ski Cannon.

If coming from Connecticut on the 91 corridor it's even worse. Now you are ignoring/driving by so many larger resorts to go to a smaller one. You've passed the 91 turnoffs for Mt. Snow, Stratton, Magic, Bromley, Okemo, Killington, Pico. You've ignored the fact that you could turn onto 89 and go to Stowe or Sugarbush in the same amount of time.

It's easy to see why Burke might not the first choice unless you live on the northern side of Franconia Notch.

VTKilarney · Jun 7, 2018

gregnye said:
Also, to get to Burke requires you to pass by so many ski areas.

Spot on. It's not driving distance that predominantly hurts Burke, it's what you have to drive by in order to get to Burke.

mbedle · Jun 7, 2018

VTKilarney said:
Spot on. It's not driving distance that predominantly hurts Burke, it's what you have to drive by in order to get to Burke.

While all true, the original post didn't mention that fact and only said it was because it so far out of the way. Hence the reason why TB mentioned its not really that far out of the way.

AdironRider · Jun 7, 2018

thetrailboss said:
It is funny to hear someone say Burke “is so far out of the way” compared to Jay!

It is 3 hours from Boston. All interstate driving except for the last 8 miles.

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And during that three hours you pass how many ski areas that are pretty much right off the highway?

Burke just isn't big enough to draw more than a day trip here and there for "how out of the way it is" in comparison to upteen other hills. At least I think thats the reference he is trying to make.

Jay at least has the cloud to justify itself, and their visits still probably pale in comparison to most of the major players.

Alterra makes the most sense to me for picking up Jay. I fear Burke is in for another one of those dark periods though...

tumbler · Jun 7, 2018

I think Jay will be bought by a single operator type that wants to get into the resort and ski business. Jay is well known in the ski community, like on this board, but not well known among the seldom skier- think day tickets. The ones who do know it think its too far away and cold. The ski area ownership model has changed dramitcally since the Feds raided and put it into recievership. At that time there were more owners before Big Vail and Alterra, etc. I don't see them having an interest in it. Perhaps the Canadian company mentioned before but I think it will be a single operator.

As for Burke it feels like it might be in for some rough times but that a single operator would be interested in it. The hotel is too good to pass up. They would really need to sink a ton of money in marketing for commercials in the Boston area so people hear the name. I feel that there are some poeple out there that see the Sugarbush model with Win and would like to give it a shot.

There is no way the State of Vermont is going to buy it and operate it. They have plenty of other things to be spending money on and the optics of buying it after being in bed with Q would be very bad.

Zand · Jun 7, 2018

The thing about Burke that might make it more attractive to a buyer is the fact it needs next to nothing done with it. 2 new high speed quads that service the entire hill, a brand new T-bar for the race slope, and best yet, a brand new giant hotel to put people in. Other than typical snowmaking/grooming upgrades (which, face it, they really need but have gotten by without), a new buyer could come in and not spend a dime on the place for a couple years and it would probably be perfectly fine.

Who knows, maybe this is a good time for BMA to get back into the fray, Probably wouldn't be much to acquire it and they know everything about it like the back of their hand. Find someone else to run the hotel and they're all set.

thetrailboss · Jun 7, 2018

mbedle said:
While all true, the original post didn't mention that fact and only said it was because it so far out of the way. Hence the reason why TB mentioned its not really that far out of the way.

Exactly. I’m not sure if the poster has ever been to Burke. It’s easy to get to.

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gregnye · Jun 7, 2018

thetrailboss said:
Exactly. I’m not sure if the poster has ever been to Burke. It’s easy to get to.

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I've been to Burke and honestly I'd rather just keep driving to Jay. Or since the drive is three hours anyway I'd rather just go to Killington. Killington is also fewer miles on my car at 159 rather than 187.

Edd · Jun 7, 2018

gregnye said:
I've been to Burke and honestly I'd rather just keep driving to Jay. Or since the drive is three hours anyway I'd rather just go to Killington.

Clearly most people agree with you. The lower crowds at Burke would be of high value to me if I were a VT skier. If the snowpack at Burke were more on par with K and Jay I’d go with Burke.

benski · Jun 7, 2018

thetrailboss said:
Exactly. I’m not sure if the poster has ever been to Burke. It’s easy to get to.

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I have never done it, but it does seam to be a bit of a pain for such a small mountain, without something exciting to compensate, like Mad River and Magic with there unique character, and none of the insane views wildcat has.

deadheadskier · Jun 7, 2018

gregnye said:
I've been to Burke and honestly I'd rather just keep driving to Jay. Or since the drive is three hours anyway I'd rather just go to Killington. Killington is also fewer miles on my car at 159 rather than 187.

Depends on the day of the week. For me? Snow conditions being reasonably equal? On Saturday or Sunday, I'll take Burke every single time

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Smellytele · Jun 7, 2018

Jay has Montreal - Burke does not.
I would much rather ski Burke than K snow conditions being reasonably equal any day of the week. only 20 minutes difference by google maps but in reality probably less as getting to Burke is mostly highway and I don't have to drive the shitty route 4.

BenedictGomez · Jun 7, 2018

VTKilarney said:
I think that the State of Vermont should purchase Jay.

They can sell just a few tickets a day and hold a lottery to determine who wins the tickets. This will allow the Burton family to ski all they want at a nearly private mountain.

And it will be the safest ski lottery in all of America, because it will be the only one government run & audited!

thetrailboss · Jun 7, 2018

benski said:
I have never done it, but it does seam to be a bit of a pain for such a small mountain, without something exciting to compensate, like Mad River and Magic with there unique character, and none of the insane views wildcat has.

You’re missing out. Fast lifts, great terrain, no crowds, good value, and stunning views.

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