All Mountain Skis That Are Great In Moguls

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  1. #1
    CS2-6's Avatar
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    All Mountain Skis That Are Great In Moguls

    Long-time...first-time...
    I've posted this question on two other forums, but am looking to get as wide a cross-section of opinions as possible. So I apologize if any of yall have seen a very similar post elsewhere. I almost never ski the Northeast, but I'm posting here specifically because this seems to be the place on the internet where mogul skiing is most alive now, with mogulskiing.net defunct.

    I looked at all the relevant threads I could find, but didn't come across an answer. Besides, everyone's situation is a little different; and really, what's one more thread on the pile.

    Height: 5'11"
    Weight: 165lbs
    Ability: Expert (If we're being honest with each other, "Advanced")
    Location (skiing): Southwestern Colorado (exclusively)
    Days on the Snow: 6-10/year

    I spend 85% of my time on moguls, but 15% of the time I end up skiing through some crud and tracked out powder because the folks I ski with get tired of all the moguls all the time.

    If I'm ever lucky enough for a powder day, I'll rent some fat things. I never go fast on the groomers, so I don't need stability at speed or long, GS turns.

    The consensus of past advice has been to save the money of skis and spend it on more days on the snow and possibly lessons. That's fine except the skis I like aren't terribly well stocked in rental shops. Shops that have any usually have the Kinks, but they're all getting a little old (5 seasons now), and they were a soft "freestyle" ski out of the box. And if a shop has a second model, it's usually the Smash7s, which are newer, but set up weird (see below). But, if any of yall still think my money would be better spent on elsewhere, just let me know.

    I'm looking for an all-mountain (~80-90mm underfoot, 100 at most) ski that I will really like in the bumps and that I will not really hate in the crud.



    I get the impression that the type of ski that works well in the moguls depends a lot on how the skier attacks the moguls. I'm trying to improve, but I know I'm 34 and only ski a week or two a year, so I'll never be anything close to a hot doggin' World Cupper.

    Here's a couple videos of me skiing down some blue moguls. Just to give yall an idea of my ability and style:

    My research shows I want a torsionally stiff ski, with a soft tip (and tail?, still not sure on that part), and traditional camber.

    A few years ago when I asked a similar question on other forums, some folks said "just get mogul skis and deal with them in conditions they're not designed for". I was originally hesitant to take this approach because I'd been on the Volkl Mogul Wall and absolutely hated them, in the backseat the entire day. Last season; however, I tried a pair of 4FRNT Originators and absolutely loved them on some skied off blue bumps. I dunno if I got better or if the Mogul Walls are that much stiffer than the Originators. And I'm not sold on the idea that a pair of dedicated bump skis would make a good single quiver for someone like me, but I'm more open to the idea now. Going by that, here's the "short" list of contenders:

    Line Blend
    Line Honeybadger - may be too flexy
    K2 Shreditor - some reviews suggest they may be too rockered
    Rossignol Scratch - skied an old pair of these (naked lady silhouette) and liked them (but they were pretty flexed out and the snow was pretty skied off), but not sure I'd enjoy them in any sort of powder or crud. I understand the current model may be too rockered.
    Fat-ypus D'root
    Fat-ypus G'Butter
    4Frnt Vandal
    4Frnt Originator
    Dynastar Twisters
    JSkis The AllPlay
    Armada ARV86/ARV96
    Armada B-Dog
    Faction Prodigy 3.0
    Moment PB&J
    Lib-Tech Backwards
    Head Caddy
    Head Framewall - probably too stiff
    Salomon Rocker2 - some reviews suggest they're stiffer than I'd like
    Blizzard Bushwacker - everyone says these are the best all-mount mogul-bias skis, but it seems that the stiffness varies wildly year to year; they're returning for 2018, but I've got no idea how flexible they'll be
    Salomon TNT - metal reinforced? if so, they're probably too stiff for my "style"
    Volkl Kink - Skied these multiple years and liked them a lot, but maybe too soft in the tails, seemed like whenever my weight gets back, the tails kinda collapse and I crash (unintentional tail butter?). Probably too soft.
    Rossignol Smash7 - I liked these except that the breaks on the rental sticks are too wide and cross each other, basically tying my laces together; if it hadn't happened to me about two times per day, I would've never thought it was possible

    Do yall reckon that has to do with their technique being better or desire for more groomer performance and stability at speed?

    Jesus Christ, that was a lot of preamble. Thanks for the help, yall.

  2. #2
    If 85% of my skiing was dedicated to moguls, then I would buy a mogul specific ski. Technique aside back seat issues in the bumps are usually the result of the tails of the skis being too soft.

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

  3. #3
    Edd's Avatar
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    On your list Ive only skied (and own) the Bushwackers, I think from 2015. I like them in bumps, my shitty technique aside. I would not recommend the current model. Theyre notably stiffer, but a better bump skier could rock them, Im sure. Im your height and 10 pounds heavier, skiing in a 180 length. Id be curious to try the 173 when it comes to bumps.


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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by deadheadskier View Post
    If 85% of my skiing was dedicated to moguls, then I would buy a mogul specific ski. Technique aside back seat issues in the bumps are usually the result of the tails of the skis being too soft.

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app
    Really? I actually did not know this. I've never tried a dedicated mogul ski and this makes me curious.

  5. #5
    Given your skiing style, location, and described terrain, I'm going to go rogue and say none of the above. I don't see the need for a mogul specific ski.

    At 6-10 days per year, you're not going to get the conditioning, muscle memory and skill development to make a dedicated mogul ski shine. Your technique is not at all what mogul skis are designed for.

    I would go with a good all mountain ski that you like, and forget bump specific, even though bumps is mostly what you ski. Lots of combinations of flex, width and camber out there to choose from.

    There's a lot you're doing right, head up, shoulders down the hill, smooth core. The line you choose, the degree and type of skidding, and where you pressure the ski tells me you need some coaching in those areas.

    Lets look at some photos:


    CS2 a.jpg

    Here cresting a small bump, look at your lower leg. There is no forward shin pressure.



    CS2 a.jpg

    A few seconds later in the stop, weight way back.



    CS2 c.jpg

    Look at your skis. They are divergent. Ask yourself what is going on, what leads to this, and where your pressure (fore and aft, left and right) on the skis is. This is 9 seconds in on the second video, just as you finish a turn to your right.


    'Don't get me wrong. Buy the skis you like, and perhaps you will grow into the pair you buy. What I am saying is you aren't yet where you can make the best evaluation on what those skis should be. Get some coaching on edging, timing, hip position and stance in general, weight distribution, perfecting your turn and different kinds of turns, line selection and honing your ability to ski different lines of the same bump.

    If you only can get out there 6-10 times a year (a sin for someone who lives in Colorado) read mogul books & watch mogul videos to make the most of your time on hill, there's lots of material out there. Look at Pugski.com, tons of mogul advice and videos there. Find a good mogul coach or instructor. Take at least 3 classes in those 10 days. Get more video of yourself, (preferably better quality video*) and study it.


    *Better resolution, closer up with telephoto, shot from mid bump field, not the bottom, shot both coming and going.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jully View Post
    Really? I actually did not know this. I've never tried a dedicated mogul ski and this makes me curious.
    It's easier to maintain forward shin pressure as you come into the bump in the absorption phase. When you go into the extension phase coming up over the bump and skiing tall, that's when you are most likely to fall into the backseat as your weight position becomes more neutral. Having soft tails exasperates the potential for this. Stiffer tails create more of a platform to balance on as you move to drive yourself forward again down into the trough to re-enter the absorption phase.

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

  7. #7

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    great analysis Moose!

  8. #8
    I can only imagine the constructive feedback (ridicule) I would get if I posted a video of myself...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by tumbler View Post
    I can only imagine the constructive feedback (ridicule) I would get if I posted a video of myself...
    Tumbler ? anything to do with your style .... His skiing isn't bad . If I had to critique it would be a lil back seat and not enough knee bending.

    edit . I'm sort of in the same boat as far as a ski need goes . So I'm glad the OP posted the subject.

    I like a ski a little bit longer 170- 75 . like to let it roll every once in a while and enjoy a little extra stability . 165lbs 5'6" ...need to drop at least 10lbs . I really like moguls ,but Pa. is a bit tough usually icy dust on crust . So looking for suggestions too . although I would be looking for a previous year model as I'm cheap LOL.
    Last edited by Siliconebobsquarepants; Aug 16, 2018 at 3:55 PM.
    " We're all in this together" ....Some more together than others .

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Siliconebobsquarepants View Post
    Tumbler ? anything to do with your style .... His skiing isn't bad . If I had to critique it would be a lil back seat and not enough knee bending.

    edit . I'm sort of in the same boat as far as a ski need goes . So I'm glad the OP posted the subject.

    I like a ski a little bit longer 170- 75 . like to let it roll every once in a while and enjoy a little extra stability . 165lbs 5'6" ...need to drop at least 10lbs . I really like moguls ,but Pa. is a bit tough usually icy dust on crust . So looking for suggestions too . although I would be looking for a previous year model as I'm cheap LOL.
    Dynastar Twisters are great on icy Pocono bumps. It takes a bit of effort to carve them on groomers. Never skied them in deep snow, but that's not likely to be an issue in PA.

    That being said, I've seen plenty of people rip bumps on all kinds of skis. I wouldn't recommend a rockered ski for someone who spends a lot of time in bumps, but I think technique is far more important to good bump skiing than ski choice. A dedicated bump ski will probably be lighter and quicker edge to edge and will help you get out of the back seat when your technique flounders, but it won't dramatically improve your bump skiing the way a shaped ski will improve your carving or a rockered ski will improve your powder skiing.
    Last edited by Domeskier; Aug 17, 2018 at 11:29 AM.

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