All Mountain Skis That Are Great In Moguls

JimG. said:

Whatever happened to Dan DiPiro?

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Lemme know if you find out.

Siliconebobsquarepants said:

Lower your upper body and move your hands forward and your tips will almost automatically drive into the next trough.

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Thanks, that makes a lot of sense to me. I'd heard you want a taller stance in the bumps, but that's probably in a relative sense, relative to the greater hip angulation in slalom and downhill styles.

mister moose said:

Why are you doing that?

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You know, I've noticed that I always feel a little more comfortable stopping to the left than the right. It's the way I first learned, and even now on steep stuff I've seen that I tend to spill more speed turning to the left and less in control to the right. And that bio-mechanical flaw might go really really deep; when I'm squatting heavy weight, I have a tendancy to twist a little bit to the left coming up.

I just didn't know it was obvious even on easy blue runs.

mister moose said:

go watch The Karate Kid.

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You mean that really old movie? With Will Smith's kid? Naw, the previews didn't look that good. I can catch a fly with my ski poles though...

mister moose said:

Oh. Why haven't you moved to Colorado yet?

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'Cause God Bless Texas.

mister moose said:

Cool. Come to VT and buy me a beer

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Don't make offers you'll regret following through on. If work sends me up to Yankeeland I'll definitely be taking you up on that. Sounds like it might even beat a Mary Jane clinic in a cost/benefit analysis. And yeah, I don't know what Superstar is; I didn't even know you could still ski in May up there.

Just don't call me "grasshopper" or make me walk on rice paper (your turn in the Reference Challenge).

mister moose said:

Oh. Lose the backpack

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But then where am I going to carry this 32oz of coffee, bag of beef jerky, and tall boy?

bdfreetuna said:

You will adapt.

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That brings up my next question. At 5'11" and 165 lbs. and intermediate skiing ability, what length ski should I be using? I know I need short poles, but how short? 44-55"?

CS2-6 said:

That brings up my next question. At 5'11" and 165 lbs. and intermediate skiing ability, what length ski should I be using? I know I need short poles, but how short? 44-55"?

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I'm your height and have bump skis ranging from 168cm to 182cm. I wouldn't recommend anything less than 175cm. Just make sure you're not getting something to stiff in the tips. A longer, softer ski will help with speed control, which is one of the keys to gaining confidence in bumps. For poles, I generally go with 105cm-107cm (i.e., 41-42 inches). At you height, anything over 44 inches will probably interfere with absorption and keeping your hands forward.

Domeskier said:

I'm your height and have bump skis ranging from 168cm to 182cm. I wouldn't recommend anything less than 175cm.

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Why do you say that?

Professional bump skiers are on shorter skis with their dedicated mogul skis than their "normal" skis.

Look at this mogul podium.

CS2-6 said:

Lemme know if you find out.

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It's a great read, especially for an aspiring bumper:

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showth...d-You-About-Mogul-Skiing?highlight=dan+dipiro

BenedictGomez said:

Why do you say that?

Professional bump skiers are on shorter skis with their dedicated mogul skis than their "normal" skis.

Look at this mogul podium.

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From dipiro post #34 in 2005 "As for length... with bump skis, I always tend to go with the longest available. (I'm 6 ft. tall.) Shorter skis are good for whipping around in the air, but all bump skis are relatively short these days. (I used to compete on 195s/200s.)"

Old post but still relevant ? I like longer skis as well . Maybe some springlike effect when you leave a trough and start your next turn.

I don't know how many of the competitions are zip line vs natural . I would tend to think shorter skis would favor that type ?

I've only ever entered one competition so just speculating from a recreational point of view.

Siliconebobsquarepants said:

I've only ever entered one competition so just speculating from a recreational point of view.

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Looking at a bunch of podium shots (here's a recent one below, with all 6 medalists), there's definitely a lot of variability among the mogul pros. But top of head seems like longer than average these days, and top of head obviously isnt that long.

I also found some pros only going chin height for the other extreme, but I'd say nose to middle of forehead'ish seems to be the average, and that's clearly short for an expert skier. In the below pic, the "longest" mogul skis are only top-of-forehead, and that's Mikael Kingsbury, and he's the best mogul skier in the world.

My daily drivers are a 170 Volkl Kendo. I went a bit shorter because I like to ski woods and bumps. Not ideal bump skis, but they work very well for all mountain skiing and getting into the bumps and woods every so often.

BenedictGomez said:

Looking at a bunch of podium shots (here's a recent one below, with all 6 medalists), there's definitely a lot of variability among the mogul pros. But top of head seems like longer than average these days, and top of head obviously isnt that long.

I also found some pros only going chin height for the other extreme, but I'd say nose to middle of forehead'ish seems to be the average, and that's clearly short for an expert skier. In the below pic, the "longest" mogul skis are only top-of-forehead, and that's Mikael Kingsbury, and he's the best mogul skier in the world.

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Those podium shots are a bit misleading when it comes to judging ski length. The skiers are usually resting the skis on their shoulders, so you need to take into account the angle the skis make with the body. Kingsbury is 175cm and skiing what appears to be his ID One signature ski, which only comes in 172cm. ID One has a helpful chart for determining mogul ski length. At 5'11 (approximately 180cm), it would recommend a 177cm:



Most mogul skis max out at 180-182cm. At 5'11, I think it's really a matter of personal preference whether the OP goes 175cm or 182cm. Being 5'11 myself and having skis in both lengths, I find I prefer the longer.

I have also seen at times that at the podium the skiers aren't holding the skis that they skiied the event on. Sometimes you see them click out of their skis and somebody gives them a pair of skis to hold for the the camera for advertising purposes.

skiur said:

I have also seen at times that at the podium the skiers aren't holding the skis that they skiied the event on. Sometimes you see them click out of their skis and somebody gives them a pair of skis to hold for the the camera for advertising purposes.

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Yeah, I've seen that too. I guess sponsors don't want to advertise their products with scuffed up tips and scratched top sheets.

Domeskier said:

Yeah, I've seen that too. I guess sponsors don't want to advertise their products with scuffed up tips and scratched top sheets.

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The times I've seen that, it was so the officials could check to certify the skis used in the competition met spec, they were taken from them while still in the finish area.

mister moose said:

The times I've seen that, it was so the officials could check to certify the skis used in the competition met spec, they were taken from them while still in the finish area.

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Ah. That makes sense. I can't remember if I saw it in an event where ski specs come into play, but it definitely happened in the finish area just before some sports reporter stuck a microphone in the athlete's face.

Depends how serious you are about moguls vs. everything else. Virtually any other type of skiing you'd reap benefits going over ideal mogul ski length.

I would pick a middle ground of skis with a "rocker" shovel and tail (still cambered overall) with a low swing weight and maybe up to 90mm waist anyway. You might be able to get away with an all-mountain ski if it's "slippery" enough (even if it requires an adaptation on your part).

If the shovel and tail have a good lift, add at least 5cm, maybe 10cm to the "recommended" length (this might apply to a Kastle MX or Dynastar Sultan but newer skis have more gradual rise for flotation and maneuverability so thus longer total length for similar sidecut hold). So for you I'd say 180cm all mountain and consider mid/low 170s for moguls only.

Why? Because powder days happen and woods are like moguls but better. YMMV. I got the impression you are looking for 1 set of skis to use all the time but mogul biased. If you are looking for a dedicated mogul ski please ignore everything I've said.

????

http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/...tionequipment_1617_11072016_clean_English.pdf

Page 21 . For FIS There doesn't seem to be any length or width limitations on Freestyle skis ?

they don't call it freestyle for nuthin

Domeskier said:

Yeah, I've seen that too. I guess sponsors don't want to advertise their products with scuffed up tips and scratched top sheets.

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Also I think there skis are stiffer than consumer skis so they can better handle the high speeds.

Enlightening! Thanks everybody, I'll take any more length advice or experience folks want to throw in.

Domeskier said:

wouldn't recommend anything less than 175cm

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Domeskier said:

not getting something to stiff in the tips

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I'm beginning to see this is why I've gravitated towards park skis, they're generally the softest tips rental shops carry.

Domeskier said:

poles, I generally go with 105cm-107cm (i.e., 41-42 inches)

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Awesome. Thanks, man.

JimG. said:

It's a great read, especially for an aspiring bumper:

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Absolutely. I remember the first time I read it a few years ago. It was the first time mogul skiing made sense to me.

Domeskier said:

At 5'11 (approximately 180cm), it would recommend a 177cm...I find I prefer the longer.

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That's a really helpful chart. Why do you like the longer? Better absorption? Faster?

bdfreetuna said:

middle ground of skis with a "rocker" shovel and tail (still cambered overall) with a low swing weight and maybe up to 90mm waist anyway...If the shovel and tail have a good lift, add at least 5cm, maybe 10cm to the "recommended" length...180cm all mountain and consider mid/low 170s for moguls only

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Nope, you nailed it. That's some incredibly helpful input right there, I really appreciate it and it's the framework I'll be using in my ski search. I don't own any skis (never have) and I'm aiming for a one-ski quiver, but I still enjoy bumps more than anything else, so I can swallow a lot of compromise on other areas of the mountain. But I doubt I'll ever ski the bumps good enough to really use a dedicated mogul ski. But, I'm keeping my eye out for one on steep dirt cheap discount, just because I think it'd be fun to use every now and again. I really liked my day on my buddy's 4FRNT Originators in 181cm.

From the comments so far, sounds like anywhere between 170-177cm for a mogul ski, and 175-180 for an all mountain.

I'd also noticed at the last Olympics that most of the bump skis are about eye level, but hadn't realized there could be a difference between the skis used in the run and in front of the camera.

CS2-6 said:

That's a really helpful chart. Why do you like the longer? Better absorption? Faster?

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Not sure. It might be the slightly longer edge, which is helpful in icy east coast bumps. I think a longer ski also lets you initiate the absorption phase of the turn a little earlier, which means you can start the extension phase closer to the top of the mogul's backside and control your speed a little better. Or maybe it's just because I first learned to ski bumps in the straight ski era and my style was adapted to longer skis. Or that the 182s are a better ski for me than the 175s not because of their length but for some other reason. I really haven't tried enough skis in various lengths to be opining with any authority about the costs or benefits of an additional 6 or 7cms. Maybe it matters at the margin when you're competing for tenths of a second on a 300 yard FIS course, but probably not for most of us.

Domeskier said:

control your speed a little better

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Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I also read the other day that pro freestyle skiers like shorter skis for maneuverability in the jumps but longer skis in for fore-aft stability the bumps. Might be something to that too.

But, since I've never been on 200cm boards in the first place (even though my youth was spent on straight skis), I'll never get going fast enough in the bumps to need fore-aft stability, I'll probably go for shorter. Although being able to begin the absorption phase a little earlier is appealing.

CS2-6 said:

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I also read the other day that pro freestyle skiers like shorter skis for maneuverability in the jumps but longer skis in for fore-aft stability the bumps. Might be something to that too.

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Can definitely see how shorter skis are better for jumps, particularly with the things they are pulling these days. They're practically skiing on snow blades in freestyle aerials.