BenedictGomez
Well-known member
I guess you dont ski at any eastern resorts.
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- Thread starter Zand
- Start date
I guess you dont ski at any eastern resorts.
mishka
New member
do I read it correctly :smile: You in UT this year?? hopefully/definitely will be in touch for some turns together again:beer:
Teleskier
Member
Mass transit did not work well in Park City
While I don't think anyone could ever get me to return back to Utah again after last year's 10-day Park City and Canyons trip, here is my suggestion.
I was lulled by all the press into thinking that the Park City bus system would be efficient and well run, and so purposefully didn't rent a car but opted for too-expensive (almost same price as rental car) airport transfers, and purposefully booked my stay at one of the more expensive places right on the bus route (you pay for that 'convenience').
Despite paying for the 'convenience', I didn't find their bus system good at all, and its daily missteps had daily added to all the other negatives of the place for me.
I do wonder if I had had a car, if I wouldn't have felt so hopelessly trapped, and it would have removed the 4-times-a-day (to skiing, back from skiing, to dinner, back from dinner) daily sense of minor to major frustrations (to accompany all the other Park City and Utah negatives and frustrations).
If I had had a car, I definitely would have visited a resident friend in Deer Valley who invited me, but never got there from the multiple bus routes that it would have required, which I had given up faith in. (If it couldn't even get me easily from Park City to Canyons during prime ski commute hours, I had even less faith in it getting me even further afield out on the remote DV loops at even less-common times). My Deer Valley friend is still ticked that I never visited, and said I would have had a different experience. Maybe. But then again, how different would 'just down the road' in the same Utah town have really been? I was also there trying to make use of my EPIC pass - why pay extra for another place that I would also probably likewise find that sucked from it being "Utah."
Clearly I was not a fan. But renting a car might have helped a LITTLE. Since if you likewise find that one ski area sucks, you can drive to a different ski area (and see if that Utah place also sucks for you too, or not). Others here have had good trips to Utah, but admit they went to different ski towns. As always, your mileage may vary. Good luck!
While I don't think anyone could ever get me to return back to Utah again after last year's 10-day Park City and Canyons trip, here is my suggestion.
I was lulled by all the press into thinking that the Park City bus system would be efficient and well run, and so purposefully didn't rent a car but opted for too-expensive (almost same price as rental car) airport transfers, and purposefully booked my stay at one of the more expensive places right on the bus route (you pay for that 'convenience').
Despite paying for the 'convenience', I didn't find their bus system good at all, and its daily missteps had daily added to all the other negatives of the place for me.
I do wonder if I had had a car, if I wouldn't have felt so hopelessly trapped, and it would have removed the 4-times-a-day (to skiing, back from skiing, to dinner, back from dinner) daily sense of minor to major frustrations (to accompany all the other Park City and Utah negatives and frustrations).
If I had had a car, I definitely would have visited a resident friend in Deer Valley who invited me, but never got there from the multiple bus routes that it would have required, which I had given up faith in. (If it couldn't even get me easily from Park City to Canyons during prime ski commute hours, I had even less faith in it getting me even further afield out on the remote DV loops at even less-common times). My Deer Valley friend is still ticked that I never visited, and said I would have had a different experience. Maybe. But then again, how different would 'just down the road' in the same Utah town have really been? I was also there trying to make use of my EPIC pass - why pay extra for another place that I would also probably likewise find that sucked from it being "Utah."
Clearly I was not a fan. But renting a car might have helped a LITTLE. Since if you likewise find that one ski area sucks, you can drive to a different ski area (and see if that Utah place also sucks for you too, or not). Others here have had good trips to Utah, but admit they went to different ski towns. As always, your mileage may vary. Good luck!
ThinkSnow
Member
I visit the SLC area annually or bi-annually with friends, and we've always opted for renting an SUV. Breaking down the cost between a few people makes it much more cost-effective. Its also nice to be able to come & go as you please.
FBGM
Well-known member
I’m curious to know how the bus system failed you? Where did you stay? The bus system is pretty solid. Even on busy weekends. It’s by no means as quick as a car, but it is pretty dialed in and one of the best systems in a ski town.
Where your homie live in DV? Did you expect the bus to drop you off at some random deer crest mansion?
What transportation you take from airport? Uber is $35-$50. You take a private car or suburban from a company? Yeah that’s $150. Your mistake.
You want quicker access to main street dinner or your buddies DV mansion, take an Uber. You can’t go a block without tripping over 5 Uber’s. And they are cheap.
I just don’t get the flatlanders complaining about shit they don’t know or don’t do correct.
Source - I owned two homes and consulted in that town for 10 years.
Teleskier
Member
I don't want to rehash it all - but here is a taste:
https://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/140223-Utah-How-bad-can-it-be?p=997260&highlight=#post997260
My actual experience of it was worse than I wrote there. Buses not showing up reliably, or at least in an even loosely predictable way, is a basic requirement of any dependable transit system.
Stowe is a much smaller 'not flat-lander' town for instance, and not a big monied city like Park City with ample people and big businesses to afford it, but even its 'rural town' busses can be counted on by tourists to get from ski mountain to hotels and town center.
Park City bus drivers consistently - uniformly - universally - not even knowing how their very own bus route they are currently driving on works, or is timed (ie, Canyons route randomly changing) is another huge red flag of a badly run system. Contrast to a similar first-time tourist visit to Vail, where at least I give them high marks for a very good, dependable, usable bus system that I and countless locals/workers could rely on daily (even if I found their skiing similarly disappointing, to me).
I tried very hard to make their Park City bus system work for me just between major published hotel + Ski Area + downtown stops. Basic mass transit 101.
Calling Uber is something I'd only ever do in complete abject defeat, as an European-American who believes in (good) mass transit. Your mileage may vary.
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FBGM
Well-known member
I would say you have a one off experience. I rarely hear horror stories that bad with some exceptions coming at Sundance, which sucks in general. There has been some times where snow falls at peak hours on holidays screw up everything as wel. Maybe once a year?
The biggest hurdle as of late is staffing. No surprise there. But finding a CDL city driver at even like $20/hr is hard. Heard some thing about them doing paid training and CDL for anyone wanting to run a bus no experience necessary thing. I didn’t read into it much, but hard times call for whatever it takes.
You said you hate Uber for some reason I don’t understand. But for drinking Main Street restaurant travel it’s the way. Quick easy and cheap. Who hasn’t puked in an Uber at 2:00am. Send it.
Hey, at least parking is still free at resorts in Utah. Sure that will change sometime.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
This.
Anyone unhappy with Park City's public transit likely wont be happy with public transit anywhere. Park City even has a phenomenal GPS app where you can literally see precisely WHERE the bus you need currently is in its' loop, so if....say.... you just missed it, you can opt for an Uber instead, or walk if it's a short walk. It's very similar to Vail's system, which is also excellent.
Teleskier
Member
Wow. That's complete BS. Homer'ism runs strong in you two. You're trying extremely very hard to justify and cover for a very bad system (which is probably why it remains so bad) :
- I must have wanted a bus to drive me to a friend's remote house? Nope. Major, published, most-popular tourist spots.
- It must have been Sundance? Nope. Normal random ski week.
- It must have been 2am? Nope. From major Park City hotel right on the bus stop to Canyons ski lift (9am?), from Canyons last chair (4pm?) to Park City hotel, from Park City hotel to downtown Park City dinner (8pm?), back to hotel (10pm?). All unreasonable?
- It was one bad bus trip? Nope. 4 trips a day for 10 days = 40 chances to get finally it right/passable.
- I must have wanted it to be as fast as car? Nope. You tell me - giving TWO HOURS to go from nearby Canyons ski area to Park City. Is that reasonable to you? If so, you have very low expectations. It takes 1.5hr to WALK there!
As a lifelong extensive traveller, the number of mass transit systems I've experienced must be near triple digits. Park City mass transit for me ranks in the bottom 10 percent.
News flash: Your own "Take an Uber" admission != a sign of a good mass transit system. But would be on par for the poor transit system I experienced there.
The best you could Homer'ism sugar coat it is: I just must have been there for the wrong, whole, ten days.
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jimk
Well-known member
PC is one of those places where it's often best to rent a cheap economy car instead of using airport transport, even for solo travelers, because of the low price of small cars. Also, the interstate from airport to PC is generally very driver-friendly, rarely closed for significant periods, and unlikely need for expensive 4wd vehicles. I've used the bus system in town and had no complaints, but lately I've had a car out in Utah and typically used copious free parking at Canyons Cabriolet lot. I've skied a lot of Utah in last three years, esp. Snowbird and Park City. Alta/Bird is better for burley powder skiing, but PC has a bit of that too and is nirvana for groomer skiers. If you didn't care for PC terrain, DV is more of the same.
Teleskier
Member
Agreed. That's the other data point that leads to why tourists should rent a car, and not be trapped by the bad PC bus transit system, DESPITE how much the PC tourist guides flaunt how "Excellent" it is so you "don't need a car." Not true. Got fooled once, to my detriment for 10 long frustrating days.
Teleskier
Member
It's been nagging me [or rather, my friend has been nagging me
] that it would have all been much different just down the road. I did have my doubts. Thank you!FBGM
Well-known member
I’m going to just assume that tele skiers cant figure out a bus system. You were to busy telling everyone that you tele ski and missed the stop. sorry there is no subway or flying jet packs to get around town.
Teleskier
Member
Well if you ever do get to traveling outside PC, you can see many other places all over the world, from small towns to big cities to other ski towns, who actually DO get transit right. You could literally pick ANYWHERE and see better than PC. I said my piece. Your mileage clearly varies.
jimk
Well-known member
Mass transit in Europe is at a whole other level than US. It will take you to just about everywhere and very efficiently. Of course Europe is much more densely populated making it all more feasible and practical. I used a bus system one time to ski five different Austrian ski areas in one week while staying in Salzburg. Great ski week and they served après-ski drinks on the bus!
FBGM
Well-known member
I’ve traveled the world. I’m not trying to compare a ski town transit system to japan bullet trains. Apples to apples, PC is up at the top.
Plus, it’s a no contest. The rest of the world is light years ahead of The US in transit. That’s cuz we are fat and American. I’d rather drive my F-350 to 7-11 across the for a big gulp.
Scruffy
Active member
@Telesker, next time just get a place to stay up at Alta and ski there and Snowbird, if you don't want to rent a car. You'll be much happier.
You are seriously continuing with this gripe? I remember last year when you complained about this and how bad the PC Whole Foods was. Really? You couldn't get an Uber or Lyft to go the 5 miles or so from your place to Deer Valley?
FBGM
Well-known member
This explained it all. No need to continue. Thread ended.
:lol: I know! It was pretty funny. I will have to dig up that thread if I can find it.
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