Article on "mega pass" being bad for the sport - Page 2

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  1. #11
    The VRBO discussion is in regards to long term rentals coming off the market. I don't think that has anything to do with epic/ikon, but the ease and insurance security available through using VRBO. You can rent out a place for the week at a far higher rate than you can for a season.

    Yes having lower fees than working with a local realtor contributes, but in the old days before VRBO, you had much more concern with damage to your property. So, you either gambled on short term rentals or find one responsible tenant for the season who wasn't going to destroy your property. With VRBO, you have piece mind that if you do get unlucky with a bad weekly rental, that organization will take care of everything for you much faster, cheaper and better than realtors ever could ever do in the past.

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  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by deadheadskier View Post
    The VRBO discussion is in regards to long term rentals coming off the market. I don't think that has anything to do with epic/ikon, but the ease and insurance security available through using VRBO.
    It doesn't; that's a bizarre conclusion to draw, and the author doesnt even provide his logic/reasoning behind it.
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  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    Your point about how these Mega Pass battles will be harmful to the future of the ski industry via lower skier numbers, I agree with 100%.

    My only caveat is that given my prediction that EPIC & IKON will ultimately fail, I do not believe this will be the future, but if I am wrong and EPIC & Ikon do "succeed" (ironic usage), then yes, this will hurt the ski industry, but we likely wont notice it in tangible numbers of decline for at least a decade.


    Well thankfully for them it doesn't matter if they take over or fail completely a decade down the road. They're making money hand over fist right now and that's all that matters. Much like Wall Street's current outlook, they couldn't care less about anybody but themselves and as long as #1 is making money all the other details are water under the bridge.

  4. #14
    Do work, are you Geoff from magic?

    My girlfriend and I ate lunch at the next table while you were being interviewed on sunday.

    We were so glad to see the black line tavern packed with people eating and drinking

    We are ikon pass holders but we very intentionally make sure to get days in at magic, mad, smuggs, platty. And when we go to those places we buy our food and drink. I refuse to spend an extra nickel at the ikon resorts on that stuff. i'm also going to silverton co in two weeks. so i feel pretty good about mixing in the indies.

    Thanks for keeping Magic special

    considering a magic sunday pass for next year since i prefer skiing soVT on sundays to shorten the drive home. stratton doesn't cut it. at all. i tend to leave there angry at groomers and gapers.
    Last edited by KustyTheKlown; Mar 14, 2019 at 4:15 PM.

  5. #15
    thetrailboss's Avatar
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    You beat me to it, DHS. The article has a lot of truth to it. Folks in Park City saw a lot of these issues coming when Vail first showed up in 2014. The housing situation is really bad. The traffic and lack of parking is a real problem. Park City only ran shuttles from the high school to the mountain, on the taxpayer's dime, for Sundance or the World Cup events at Deer Valley. Now they run it every weekend and holiday. The comparison between money Vail has spent on employee housing versus on-mountain improvements is pretty eye-opening. And, assuming that the article is right that Epic is $939 or so for next year, unrestricted, then I have to say that the price is not "that" great of a deal as it once was. Same with Ikon. I'm not sure if that will curb sales.

    The author also did a good job commenting on the issue of beginner skiers and riders, as has been pointed out here. That is a legitimate concern.
    Live, Ski, or Die!


  6. #16
    Internet has changed many things. VRBO, the ability to instantly price shop, has made realtors far less the gatekeepers to rentals than they use to be. It has nothing to do with passes. And does anybody pay the walk up window rate for a lift ticket? It’s like the manufacturers suggested retail price on an automobile. Many resorts offer lesson deals to bring in new skiers. Cheap passes are about brand loyalty but it only works if the brand is worth being loyal to. For all Vail’s faults they do invest in their resorts.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogman View Post
    Internet has changed many things. VRBO, the ability to instantly price shop, has made realtors far less the gatekeepers to rentals than they use to be. It has nothing to do with passes. And does anybody pay the walk up window rate for a lift ticket? It’s like the manufacturers suggested retail price on an automobile. Many resorts offer lesson deals to bring in new skiers. Cheap passes are about brand loyalty but it only works if the brand is worth being loyal to. For all Vail’s faults they do invest in their resorts.

    Whether this is a good or a bad thing is still TBD.... Having a generation now who is trained to think that basically the only way to purchase something is online vs in person, no matter what they're looking to buy/consume basically is likely going to create many more problems, and maybe close to an equal amount as the convenience about everything online consuming can add as well.
    '07--08 season: 51 Days, '08-'09 season: 55 Days, '09-'10 season: 41 Days, '10-'11 season: 49 days, '11-'12 season: 40 Days '12-'13 season: 57 days, '13-'14 season, 60 days '14-'15 season 60 days, '15-'16 season 52 days, '16-'17 season: 50 days, '17-'18 season 52 days, '18-'19 season 45 days '07-'19 seasons: 612 Days

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  8. #18
    I was probably the poster child a few weeks ago for why resorts charge such high walk-up rates. Planned a last minute trip (like 10 days in advance) out west to ski with friends. Was my only trip out west and don't have IKON or EPIC. Knew we were going to be at PCMR or DV, but didn't have a day by day plan or even how many days at each resort, only than we would figure it out day or two before the actual ski day where we'd go. And even when we did for example purchase tickets online the night before, the "discount" off the walk up rates was only like $5. That plus eating in the lodges was pretty costly. Interestingly, PCMR food prices were now pretty much the same as DV, but portion sizes and quality at DV were much better.

  9. #19

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    I don't think an occasional window ticket is what people are talking about. I've done that too, when the situation warrants it. But I limit the occasion that happens.

    It's people who are just starting who will be hit hard, and potentially deterred from progressing.

    But from the "ski corporation"s point of view, "a bird in hand is worth 2 in the woods". Hence the low season pass price.

  10. #20
    There's a new factor to the equation for next year - "EPIC for Everyone". Advance purchase 1-7 day "pass" valid at all Vail owned resorts, which at its best can get daily rate to $106. Not exactly a bargain, but way lower than walk up or short-term advance purchase.
    2017/18 = 37
    2016/17 = 31
    2015/16 = Depressing
    2014/15 = 28
    2013/14 = 27

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