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Cannon Mountain, last to open and first to close.

granite

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My yearly complaint about Cannon Mountain. Last to open and first to close. They could be the KING of early and late season skiing on Profile if they wanted to. They could stay open until July if they made 1/2 as much snow on Profile as Killington does on Superstar. For access, they run the tram almost all year long anyway, so that wouldn't be much of a cost factor.
 

EPB

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Haha - are you trolling for a debate on whether Cannon should be state owned and/or operated, or what?

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granite

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I'm fine with the way Cannon is owned and operated, except they open late and close early. Only four more years and I will be able to ski there for free on weekdays, what more could anyone want?
 

EPB

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- Epic passholders have had mid October to June skiing available via A Basin. Now that A Basin has no capacity for all the Epic passholders, Vail is apparently going do early/late season at Keystone. They understand the importance of a long season, but aren't stupid enough to run all their resorts long.
- Alterra partner mountains are already running long seasons at Killington and SR/SL. No need to do it at Cannon.
-Cannon could serve as an excuse for Vail to wait longer to open the other eastern resorts (and close earlier, too). It is closer to Boston than all but Sunapee, which clearly isn't set up as well for a long season.
-I never said anything about July.

Can you elaborate why you felt it my comment was akin to impaired ramblings?

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machski

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Vail in Colorado will be using Keystone for early season and Breckenridge for late season, Keystone will not be taking open late.

As for Cannon, it was interesting I did an Eastern Survey yesterday that was out out by Alterra (I assume because I got entered to win a free Ikon Base pass for next year by doing it). The survey wanted thoughts/reaction to many different New England resorts. All the Ikon owned/partners were on it, as well as all the Epics. In addition, it had Jay, Cannon and Bretton Woods on it, all currently unaligned with the big mega passes. Hmmmm.......

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cdskier

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- Epic passholders have had mid October to June skiing available via A Basin. Now that A Basin has no capacity for all the Epic passholders, Vail is apparently going do early/late season at Keystone. They understand the importance of a long season, but aren't stupid enough to run all their resorts long.

Maybe out west they want to have someone open late to compete with A-Basin when they leave Epic, but in the east they've made no efforts to stay open later at any of the resorts they already own. Why would adding Cannon change that dynamic?
 

raisingarizona

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Why would any east coast ski area management want to spend the money to stay open into June and July? Hardly anyone cares to ski shit snow through green trees in the eastern summer humidity. It would be a huge waster of money.

Maybe I’m a traditionalist but I like my skiing in the winter and cold. I haven’t cared to go up here since March 26th. Once it gets warm here all I can think about is digging and riding bikes.
 

EPB

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Vail in Colorado will be using Keystone for early season and Breckenridge for late season, Keystone will not be taking open late.

As for Cannon, it was interesting I did an Eastern Survey yesterday that was out out by Alterra (I assume because I got entered to win a free Ikon Base pass for next year by doing it). The survey wanted thoughts/reaction to many different New England resorts. All the Ikon owned/partners were on it, as well as all the Epics. In addition, it had Jay, Cannon and Bretton Woods on it, all currently unaligned with the big mega passes. Hmmmm.......

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Very interesting.

Forgot that Breck is the late play - either way, Vail will have a long season still. I'm sure the A Basin partnership was cheaper/less if a headache while it lasted.



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EPB

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Maybe out west they want to have someone open late to compete with A-Basin when they leave Epic, but in the east they've made no efforts to stay open later at any of the resorts they already own. Why would adding Cannon change that dynamic?
I alluded to this, but they understand that long seasons are of value to enough passholders that it's worth it to have one option open long. "Competing" with A Basin isn't how I'd look at it - different client bases.

Their eastern strategy is in the early innings. I don't think it's appropriate to conclude the status quo is what they ultimately want. Stowe is far from the masses - not a great early/late option in that regard. Sunapee is the only one with good proximity. Weather isn't conducive to early/late operations

Again, not saying they will or desperately want to do this, but they're the only operator I can see that would potentially be interested in early/late operations at Cannon.

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cdskier

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I alluded to this, but they understand that long seasons are of value to enough passholders that it's worth it to have one option open long. "Competing" with A Basin isn't how I'd look at it - different client bases.

Their eastern strategy is in the early innings. I don't think it's appropriate to conclude the status quo is what they ultimately want. Stowe is far from the masses - not a great early/late option in that regard. Sunapee is the only one with good proximity. Weather isn't conducive to early/late operations

Again, not saying they will or desperately want to do this, but they're the only operator I can see that would potentially be interested in early/late operations at Cannon.

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Vail is about money. The amount of additional passes they would sell from offering a resort in the east with later (or earlier) operations than they already have would be a fraction of a percent of overall sales and would likely not even cover the additional operating expenses. Late season skiing in the east is not a revenue generator. K is known for it and has that market pretty well covered. I don't see there being demand for others beyond what we have already.
 

EPB

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Of course Vail is all about money - they're a business. But - they clearly care about having one option open early/late. Perhaps we should examine why. Epic competes directly with Alterra. This is one area in which they are lacking.

Remember, keeping one option open long is an excuse to shut the other areas down earlier/open later (i.e. save significantly on November and April operations at Okemo and Stowe) while still providing a pass option to the die hard segment of the market that is sensitive to season length. This is exactly what Epic does in CO - and what they will continue to do even without A Basin bearing the brunt of it on their behalf.

If Epic builds a big enough empire in the east, this could enhance completion with Alterra and potentially cut costs overall (more places operating on shorter seasons, and enough crowds to justify keeping a place like Cannon open early/late). On a smaller scale, you already see this at Attitash/Wildcat.

Cannon is uniquely situated to do this with the right operator. Vail is probably the only one with any motivation to pull it off.

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machski

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Of course Vail is all about money - they're a business. But - they clearly care about having one option open early/late. Perhaps we should examine why. Epic competes directly with Alterra. This is one area in which they are lacking.

Remember, keeping one option open long is an excuse to shut the other areas down earlier/open later (i.e. save significantly on November and April operations at Okemo and Stowe) while still providing a pass option to the die hard segment of the market that is sensitive to season length. This is exactly what Epic does in CO - and what they will continue to do even without A Basin bearing the brunt of it on their behalf.

If Epic builds a big enough empire in the east, this could enhance completion with Alterra and potentially cut costs overall (more places operating on shorter seasons, and enough crowds to justify keeping a place like Cannon open early/late). On a smaller scale, you already see this at Attitash/Wildcat.

Cannon is uniquely situated to do this with the right operator. Vail is probably the only one with any motivation to pull it off.

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Yes but Cannon is not really a feasible option. Stowe and Okemo both have a large investment of second home owners at those resorts that want to ski or have the option to rent to skiers Nov-Apr a s it is now. They won't stand for just Cannon open Nov or late into April. Cannon itself has ZERO second homeowner base of their own. Sure, so e own down on the Franconia/Littleton side and some likely in Lincoln. But I still do not see the base of skiers to support a Cannon above other areas on the Epic pass early/late. You would likely get exactly what Cannon gives you now should Epic ever try to acquire it. And that all assumes the state wants to lease out it's last ski area.

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EPB

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Yes but Cannon is not really a feasible option. Stowe and Okemo both have a large investment of second home owners at those resorts that want to ski or have the option to rent to skiers Nov-Apr a s it is now. They won't stand for just Cannon open Nov or late into April. Cannon itself has ZERO second homeowner base of their own. Sure, so e own down on the Franconia/Littleton side and some likely in Lincoln. But I still do not see the base of skiers to support a Cannon above other areas on the Epic pass early/late. You would likely get exactly what Cannon gives you now should Epic ever try to acquire it. And that all assumes the state wants to lease out it's last ski area.

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I think this gets it backwards. You don't need to convince people who already have second homes near Stowe and Okemo to buy Epic passes. They're more or less stuck with Vail at this point. Sure there are other options, but nonev that are close enough/good enough to matter. What are they going to do, drive an hour to Killington (Okemo), Sugarbush or Smuggs (Stowe)? They could sell their place and move, bit someone else would just buy it and ski the Epic places.

The people to convince are the ones without second homes with the flexibility to go to different resorts. These were the people who inundated A Basin - not the people with places at Beaver Creek.

If the Epic pass base gets large enough in the MA/So NH/Hartford/RI area there would be plenty of die hards to justify opening Cannon from as early as possible in October to ~May 15. Funneling all that traffic to just one resort before Thanksgiving and after ~4/5-4/10 ish would save a ton of money and only piss off the people who have no real recourse but to complain.

Again, you also see this on a smaller scale on the MWV. Your options are a poorly-regarded Peak where you get a Attitash/Wildcat or
-Cranmore or Black, which are small for a full season
-A longer but not insane drive to Bretton Woods where the terrain leaves much to be desired (Shawnee I suppose, too depending upon where your place is)
- A full hour minimum to Sunday River

Most people reluctantly keep going with Peak.



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thebigo

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Regardless of the merits, cannon will not be leased in the near term. Seniors ski free midweek and they also vote, privatizing cannon would be political suicide. I could see Vail picking up the pieces when peaks inevitably implodes.
 

EPB

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Regardless of the merits, cannon will not be leased in the near term. Seniors ski free midweek and they also vote, privatizing cannon would be political suicide. I could see Vail picking up the pieces when peaks inevitably implodes.
I haven't lived in NH in years, but it's kinda funny to think you could worry about losing your seat over seniors getting cranky about "free" skiing. Textbook NH politics though.

I have no opinion on likelihood of Cannon going private in sometime soon. I also don't want to get into the politics of it. Those debates get unbearable in a hurry.

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