Vail Resorts is buying Peak Resorts.

[VTKilarney]

People legit to fly to BTV and ski Stowe. It is stupid, and nothing compared to the traffic DEN gets, but it is very much a thing.

No, it's really not "very much a thing." Take Porter Airlines from Toronto, for example. They ceased operations for the 2018/2019 winter.

Here is a quote from a VT Digger 2018 article:
"Porter had about 2,000 outbound passengers in its first winter, but only about 600 last year – just .1 percent of the airport’s total traffic. Meanwhile, passenger traffic overall has grown at the Burlington airport, with an increase of 17 percent so far this year over 2017, said Nick Longo, deputy director of aviation for administration at the airport."

The Porter Airlines flights were marketed heavily toward skiers and the schedule was designed with skiers in mind.

Do people fly to Burlington to ski? A few do. Is it "very much a thing?" Not even close.

[abc]

The reality is, that if the cost for the Epic local stays roughly the same for next season as it is for this coming season, and they keep the resorts that have no blacked out days as is, and those that do some some black out days and/or total day restrictions as is, the majority of folks, will be getting a significant number of resorts to choose from, with a break even point in 7 to 10 days depending on where one is using their Epic passes.

A lot of the casual (recreational?) skiers I know from the NYC metro area ski less than 7 days. It's more of a "something to do" once or twice a winter, rather than a sport or even a hobby.

Apart from the "bus people", I don't know of anyone who regularly skis Hunter as a day trip. (But I do know a bunch who have season passes there. Those are the ones I heard the biggest grumble from, fearing an increase of pass price next year)

All the people I know who are "regulars" to Mt Snow, Okemo, Stratton are season pass holders. (They'll automatically benefit with a lower priced season pass without changing anything at all.)

The rest, mountain hop all over. Sometime taking whatever deals they happen to find.

Will the Epic's 7 day break-even be a good enough draw? I don't know.

One can debate the pluses and minuses of the resorts that are part of Vail Resorts for sure, however for a significant chunk of the masses who make up most of the crowds on a hill day in and day out, the value that having a pass, with the number of options as the Epic pass (or IKON as well) at the price points they're offered at, certainly has a great deal of appeal to plenty of customers

Once we start talking about southern VT, Killington comes into the picture. Ikon has that one locked. It's a deterrent for many of the wannabe "expert skiers" to not have it. Epic has an uphill battle to convince those who can ski "for free" in 2 big mountains of southern/central VT, but not including Killington.

Ikon, in the mean time, has Stratton and Killington. That's a better attraction for many of the casual skiers from down here. While Hunter and Mt Snow have some legit advanced terrain, it just doesn't have the cache as Killington.

(this is my year for Epic, so the addition of Hunter will be a welcomed one. But it isn't important enough to change my pattern of rotating passes year to year)

[BenedictGomez]

Try again!

The Windham crowd are only the middle class...

No, he's correct. The Windham crowd are the yuppies & rich folks who dont care that much about the skiing, but wish to be pampered.

[thetrailboss]

No, it's really not "very much a thing." Take Porter Airlines from Toronto, for example. They ceased operations for the 2018/2019 winter.

Here is a quote from a VT Digger 2018 article:
"Porter had about 2,000 outbound passengers in its first winter, but only about 600 last year – just .1 percent of the airport’s total traffic. Meanwhile, passenger traffic overall has grown at the Burlington airport, with an increase of 17 percent so far this year over 2017, said Nick Longo, deputy director of aviation for administration at the airport."

The Porter Airlines flights were marketed heavily toward skiers and the schedule was designed with skiers in mind.

Do people fly to Burlington to ski? A few do. Is it "very much a thing?" Not even close.

BTV is not at all a major airport and most of the ski traffic in Vermont are folks driving from the major cities. Folks also take Amtrak, to some extent.

[BenedictGomez]

Attachment 25383

Looks like the spread will be getting larger unless the deal goes thru soon.

Thanks for reminding me to sell. I held it a bit in hopes Alterra might trump them, but that's not likely now, and all it will take is one crunchy politician using the M word and SKIS will plummet back to the $6 or $7 range.

As far as rising daily lift ticket rates, that doesn't appear to be a Vail only issues.

But it is. The entire lift ticket inflation of recent times is due to Vail, then Alterra, jacking the rates. Once they jacked, then the indys were free to increase their rates as well. This has led to general single day lift ticket inflation across the board.

Do people fly to Burlington to ski? A few do. Is it "very much a thing?" Not even close.

Yeah, Vermont isnt much of a fly-to-ski destination. As you say, it obviously happens, but if flying to Vermont to ski became illegal (LOL) I doubt the resorts would bat an eyelash. I will say, however, that when I worked at Stowe I was always surprised how many Brits came here to ski given they have far superior terrain closer, but when you look at their itinerary closer, they almost always tended to be people who were going to visit NYC or other USA sights on a 2 week trip, and skiing was just a 2 to 4 day diversion.

[RichT]

Heck, I'm looking for $100.00 back i'm a Veteran.............

[RichT]

We call Windham "The Vail of the Catskills"

No, he's correct. The Windham crowd are the yuppies & rich folks who dont care that much about the skiing, but wish to be pampered.

[catskillman]

We call Windham "The Vail of the Catskills"

Yep. And it is true. I think their private locker room and club must be nicer than Vail's. The private dining room is 5* and so nice and comfortable. No ski boots allowed...........

[RichT]

Yep. And it is true. I think their private locker room and club must be nicer than Vail's. The private dining room is 5* and so nice and comfortable. No ski boots allowed...........

Plus a season pass twice the price of the other Mtns nearby, and the shortest season to boot

[cdskier]

Plus a season pass twice the price of the other Mtns nearby, and the shortest season to boot

I'm trying to think of another season pass to a mountain in the Northeast in general (never-mind just the Cats) that is as pricey as the Windham one...so far I'm coming up empty. Could they really now be the most expensive pass in the Northeast?