AP Article on Ski Industry's Labor Issues - Page 3

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    It's an essay in entitlement-mentality.

    Noticed this this morning though, they're going to build a college dorm style housing place in Park City to sleep about 1,200 workers. Someone should set an over/under on how many years it takes for that new construction to be completely destroyed. An annual over/under on Park City PD visits would be fun too.

    https://www.parkrecord.com/news/summ...vdSuaLwQQEMcjA

    That location is great - but as someone said - what happens when economy does take a break - and what happens to that April- Nov? 'for those making less than 80% of the $58K median income' means $46K or less - thats $23 an hour.
    Even the hospitality industry they can work at year-round doesn't pay that well. Lots of migrant workers in Utah too.

    The economics of a ski area is steeped in capital investment and then to have to provide housing and a 'living wage' to seasonal employees? I'm just baffled how anyone else except large corporations with access to public and private equity could fund such ventures.

    This appears to be an association that will receive some tax breaks - prop. taxes are very low there as it is.

    This proposal was started in 1999? and 3 years before 1st workers can move in?

    Before the under/over on getting completely destroyed - how about just open?

    Have a question - what do European resorts do? They have even higher overhead in housing and cost of living.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    It's an essay in entitlement-mentality.

    Noticed this this morning though, they're going to build a college dorm style housing place in Park City to sleep about 1,200 workers. Someone should set an over/under on how many years it takes for that new construction to be completely destroyed. An annual over/under on Park City PD visits would be fun too.

    https://www.parkrecord.com/news/summ...vdSuaLwQQEMcjA
    Really depends on how it's managed. I lived in employee housing at Keystone in 1993 and then Snowshoe, WV in 2003. Both were at least 10 years old by the time I lived there and in relatively good condition because the resorts managed with a heavy hand on housing rules. If you got kicked out of employee housing, you'd also lose your job at the resort.

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastern powder baby View Post
    On a separate note, few skiing-related topics crack me up more than complaints about resorts not paying their ski bums enough. Being able to afford to live in a town like Vail loading gondolas should seem too good to be true - because it is. While I have some sympathy for the long-tenured residents that get priced out of Vail-type areas, I will never understand feeling bad for 20-somethings that never understood that they can't afford to spend years on end vacationing in the mountains. The labor and real estate markets are way too efficient for a free lunch like that.
    Sun Valley was ahead of its time (not in a good way). When I was ski bumming there in the late 80s they only gave you half price off of a season's pass if you worked on the mtn. Even back then that was something like $700-900. When I got there I figured I'd get a job on the mtn as a lifty or doing something else. But after I saw I wasn't going to get a free pass and the pay was sh!t, I changed course and found a job at a restaurant in town. Night work combined with ski bumming + better pay than on the mtn = win.

    I got lucky in that I found a cheapish place to live that wasn't that nice but got the job done. I definitely wasn't expecting to live in a ski in/out place on the pay of a dish washer (later promoted to cook when I lied that a bar back east where I worked was actually a "restaurant" & that I had worked as a cook there. The only food we served at that bar was a bag of peanuts with your beer. I knew they'd never call and check. Cook paid better than dish washer. Although I do feel sorry for the ppl who ate there in my first few weeks, before I learned how to cook). I did have to drive to a bus stop, park, and then get on a shuttle to get to the mountain. It would have been nicer to be closer to the mtn, but . . . I couldn't afford that.

    The only downside was that because of my shitty place, my general brokeness, and being crushed every day after skiing all day and then working til 11PM/midnight = never had a girlfriend out there, never got "lucky". Funny thing was it never bothered me. I was too F-ing tired anyway. There was a waitress on the crew at the restaurant that was definitely a member of the go-team. I could of gone with her any night. I just wanted to go home and go to sleep. Plus girlfriends cost $. . .

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by FBGM View Post
    Vail still have a 3% raise for returning employees? Because what a joke that is. 3% on a $70k salary is fine but 3% on your $13 bucks can go kick rocks
    My department offered a $1.00/hr raise for returners. On the other hand, they make by all accounts a pretty strong effort to push people who return out of employee housing, so the pay increase pretty much goes straight to market-rate rents. The majority of new hires I worked with got space in employee housing in Avon, but only two second years did, and no one with more seniority. So the actual quality of life doesn't really improve until maybe your third or fourth year. Until you reach a foreman position, the pay scale I saw topped out at $16/hr.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keelhauled View Post
    My department offered a $1.00/hr raise for returners. On the other hand, they make by all accounts a pretty strong effort to push people who return out of employee housing, so the pay increase pretty much goes straight to market-rate rents. The majority of new hires I worked with got space in employee housing in Avon, but only two second years did, and no one with more seniority. So the actual quality of life doesn't really improve until maybe your third or fourth year. Until you reach a foreman position, the pay scale I saw topped out at $16/hr.
    16 bucks an hour gets you a tent in most places.....

  6. #26

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    So, apply to Sunday River or Wildcat for work. Look for a place to live. Be ready for that first month, last month, and one month security paid up-front ( for many positions, 3 months is longer than your seasonal employment will last). Don't count on unemployment when your seasonal gig ends, because your seasonal employer jumped through hoops to be exempt from unemployment tax, so you can't collect, either.

    I, personally, am all done with the whole deal. 67 years old, been workin my tochis off since 1967, I'm not apologizing for kickin' back.

    But think about who will look for a job in an industry that everyone remembers actively running the " work for Les" low road.

    How will there be H-2b and J-1 visa workers if total visa allotments are slashed ?

    Why should there be seasonal housing on offer in rural communities where full time employees ( teachers, for instance) can't afford to live ?

    Where there is smoke, there is usually a reason, and most often that reason is not a joke. It is never a given that past experience hold through the forseeable future.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by eastern powder baby View Post
    never understand feeling bad for 20-somethings that never understood that they can't afford to spend years on end vacationing in the mountains.
    It appears those 20 year olds quickly "understood" and doesn't return the next year (so do mountains, that's why they don't give "meaningful" bonus to encourage them to return). Or they don't even get started in the first place, but went to work in town (buying cheap pass) instead.

    It's not people "feel bad" about the ski bums. It's people "understand" those kids are needed on the mountain, or the lifts don't get run!

    The labor and real estate markets are way too efficient for a free lunch like that.
    Sure, the labor market are efficient enough. That's why the mountains have trouble getting fully staffed. Who's negatively affected by that staff shortage again?

  8. #28
    Raises? I worked for Stowe for 6 seasons, and I'm not sure I ever got a raise. If I did I know it certainly wasn't $1 per year.
    President - Bicknell's Thrush Extermination Solutions (BTES), LLC



  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    Raises? I worked for Stowe for 6 seasons, and I'm not sure I ever got a raise. If I did I know it certainly wasn't $1 per year.
    Spent 20+ years Patrolling at SR. All we got was a season pass ($500-$600 back then), and that was for working TWENTY days minimum 7am-5pm



    DO THE MATH - $600 Pass/200 hours = approx $3/hour

  10. #30
    One of the things not mentioned so far that has really impacted the ski bum / beach bum scene is Airbnb/VRBO. Those services have drastically reduced seasonal rental stock in ski and beach towns. I spent two years in the mid 90s going back and forth between Cape Cod and Stowe. Me and 5 other guys would rent three bedroom houses and share bedrooms. Got the price down around $200/month per person. That's how we made it work on low wages. It's much harder to find such accommodations today because the owners are putting their homes into short term programs more so than back in the day because the insurance policies through VRBO and ease of renting the properties is so much better today.

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