Superpasses: more crowds?

Scruffy · Feb 8, 2020

BenedictGomez said:
Oh god, who cares is my reaction. I just have no desire to ski someplace where that's a thing, goes against all the reasons I recreate with skiing to begin with. That's a horror show, even if you "only" have to deal with it for 30 minutes.

I've had longer lift line waits at Magic, MRG, and Castle Rock chair, and this was before IKON/EPIC, than anywhere else. At Jackson Hole there are 5 lifts up mountain away from the base, it's a huge place that distributes a lot of people. If you know where to ski there, even on what might seem like a crowded day at the base in the morning before the lifts open, you can ski without crowds.

Scruffy · Feb 8, 2020

raisingarizona said:
Sublette and thunder laps are fun but the red box is the ticket. If you know you know, if you don’t......you don’t

Yup, know all about it.

BenedictGomez · Feb 8, 2020

Today's even worse than yesterday.

Remember folks, it has nothing to do with EPIC. This is 100% due to the nice storm they just got.

slatham · Feb 8, 2020

Epic or not, that's crazy. Strange, but if you go to Vail on a family vacation you almost want to root against a big dump so you can actually get some skiing in!

Anyone glance at the A-Basin cam this morning? Wondering how good/bad the line was.....

BenedictGomez · Feb 8, 2020

slatham said:
Epic or not, that's crazy. Strange, but if you go to Vail on a family vacation you almost want to root against a big dump so you can actually get some skiing in!

bdfreetuna · Feb 8, 2020

^
Hard pass

Scruffy I was watching MRG webcam this morning and the single chair line was very long, probably a good half hour wait. But, I mean it's a single chair and it only gets like that on powder day weekends.

Still doesn't compare to the photos above.

slatham said:
Epic or not, that's crazy. Strange, but if you go to Vail on a family vacation you almost want to root against a big dump so you can actually get some skiing in!

Absolutely, I'll take moguls a few days later over standing in line all day imagining skiing powder.

BenedictGomez · Feb 8, 2020

bdfreetuna said:
^
Hard pass

Scruffy I was watching MRG webcam this morning and the single chair line was very long, probably a good half hour wait. But, I mean it's a single chair and it only gets like that on powder day weekends.

I also cant imagine a line like that at Magic either, given they actually restrict sales so lines cant get that insane. Nor have I seen the Castlerock chair get like that, but I've never been there on a PDW Saturday so who knows, that said, I'm surprised you could even get that many Castlerock skiers gathered given the expert-only egress terrain. Maybe next year though, given Sugarbush is truly IKONic now!

bdfreetuna · Feb 8, 2020

^
Castlerock lines may not be that long but it's one of the slowest moving lines in Vermont. Widest spacing between chairs on any lift I know of.

Scruffy · Feb 8, 2020

BenedictGomez said:
I also cant imagine a line like that at Magic either, given they actually restrict sales so lines cant get that insane. Nor have I seen the Castlerock chair get like that, but I've never been there on a PDW Saturday so who knows, that said, I'm surprised you could even get that many Castlerock skiers gathered given the expert-only egress terrain. Maybe next year though, given Sugarbush is truly IKONic now!

That's why I worded it the "lift line wait", not the actual number of people in line; of course CR wouldn't even hold the number of people pictured at Vail above in that small area at the bottom of lift. I've never been in a line like the pictures above, and I hope not to. I don't ski Vail. But the whole front range is gone off the charts in part due to everyone and their brother moving to Denver, and skier retirees moving to the front range ski area condos, and of course the cheap mega passes--which cheap season passes started at Winter Park BTW way back in the 90's before EPIC.

The longest I waited in a lift line was 40 minutes on the Black chair at Magic one glorious sunny Saturday after a dump. Jackson Hole last week was mostly ski on. Again that picture of Teton Village is misleading. All the lifts at JH open at 9:00 sharp, not a minute earlier. Everyone seems to think they need to line up starting at 8:00. For the tram I can see it, but not necessary for the other lifts, unless it's a true powder day of course.

Zermatt · Feb 8, 2020

Makes Stratton look tame today.

Ursa this morning when only AMEX, Ursa and Sunbowl were open.

Smellytele · Feb 8, 2020

With vail the issue is standing in a line like that after paying almost $200

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BenedictGomez · Feb 8, 2020

From a Sugarbush SPH on FB:

Been here for 15 years and the lines today were absurd, largest crowd ever at Sugarbush

Another IKONic day.

machski · Feb 8, 2020

Was at Steamboat today. The Gondola here was similar in the morning prior to open, the lift lines exited Gondola square. Painful but once the surge got uphill, wasn't bad at other lifts. And adding to the new snow was the fact that winter carnival was this weekend in town.

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kingslug · Feb 9, 2020

St Anton main gondola lift line..88 lifts and most were shut due to avi danger..crazy lift lines can be anywhere due to many types of issues..guess we have to deal with it or find obscure places to ski.
And you just have to experience European lift lines to appreciate how orderly our are..
The bottpm pic is the insanity of apres ski

Smellytele · Feb 9, 2020

Made the mistake yesterday of getting to Cannon early and thinking I would catch first tram. I was within the first 30 or so people in line. at 8:15 they told us there was a delay as they had to tow a snow cat down. (why not just close the trails they were coming down.) At 8:30 they told us all lifts were delayed. So I stood there until 9. I got frustrated and went and drove to the zoomer chair and much to my surprise people were skiing down and the lift was running. All I ask for is communication well with correct information.

Then had to wait a 1/2 hr in the zoomer line. Found out Mittersill was open so made the trek over there from the top of the zoomer. No real lines over there (1st run had a 5 minute wait then ski on) and took 4 runs over there which were great. Saw the Peabody running so went back. Then made my next mistake. Skied down to the tram. the line was out the door but was trapped. An hour later I final got to the top. Cannanball was still not running so went back to the zoomer which had no lines and pumped out 6 or 7 runs there and decided to check to see if the cannonball was open. Luckily it was and with out a line.

I will go back to my normal MOP and park by the zoomer and start there...

Edd · Feb 9, 2020

30 minute wait for the Zoomer, holy shit. I would have given up, I’m sure.

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dblskifanatic · Feb 9, 2020

slatham said:
Epic or not, that's crazy. Strange, but if you go to Vail on a family vacation you almost want to root against a big dump so you can actually get some skiing in!

Anyone glance at the A-Basin cam this morning? Wondering how good/bad the line was.....

A Basin lines have been really good. We ended up at Breck to avoid the 70. After seeing the lines at Breck I wish we would have gone to A Basin. My son was at Keystone and the lines were ok there. Loveland Pass was closed due to avalanche danger so that might have pushed people elsewhere.

Funny thing - the areas where people wanted go chase powder were not accessible unless you hiked. None of the Bowls were opened. The Peak 8 super Connect broke down so people at Peak 9 were left with Peak 9 and Peak 10 and the E Chair. With all the people - shit got tracked out fast except for the trees.

BTW even the back way took an hour longer than normal which we have not experienced before.

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nhskier1969 · Feb 9, 2020

Coming to an Epic resort near you...
Vail yesterday

Screen Shot 2020-02-09 at 8.55.49 PM.jpg

cdskier · Feb 9, 2020

BenedictGomez said:
From a Sugarbush SPH on FB:

Another IKONic day.

Meh...I skied Friday, Saturday, and today at Sugarbush. I never waited more than maybe 4 minutes in a lift line and often much less (with the exception of Castlerock, but that doesn't really count). MLK Saturday this year was worse (an Ikon base blackout day btw).

If a major resort isn't crowded after nearly 2 feet of fresh snow falls just in time for a weekend in the middle of winter, then there's a serious problem. I really don't know how people expect to show up on a day like this past Saturday and expect to have the mountain to themselves...

I think a lot of people today are spoiled (or have bad memory). I remember having 15-20 minutes lines to ski 600 feet of vertical in the Poconos when I was younger. I remember long lift lines at Killington and Okemo years ago.

If the data on New England Ski History is accurate, then Sugarbush had higher skier visits in 1980 than they do today. No Ikon back then. And if the person complaining has been a passholder for 15 years, that basically means they started skiing at SB when SB had some of their lowest skier visits on record (which was not a good thing from a sustainability perspective). Sugarbush has seen their skier visits steadily increasing for a number of years now. I'm sure Ikon is adding some people, but I also think the "crowding" complaints are massively overblown. And I say this as a nearly 10 year SPH.

deadheadskier · Feb 9, 2020

cdskier said:
Meh...I skied Friday, Saturday, and today at Sugarbush. I never waited more than maybe 4 minutes in a lift line and often much less (with the exception of Castlerock, but that doesn't really count). MLK Saturday this year was worse (an Ikon base blackout day btw).

If a major resort isn't crowded after nearly 2 feet of fresh snow falls just in time for a weekend in the middle of winter, then there's a serious problem. I really don't know how people expect to show up on a day like this past Saturday and expect to have the mountain to themselves...

I think a lot of people today are spoiled (or have bad memory). I remember having 15-20 minutes lines to ski 600 feet of vertical in the Poconos when I was younger. I remember long lift lines at Killington and Okemo years ago.

If the data on New England Ski History is accurate, then Sugarbush had higher skier visits in 1980 than they do today. No Ikon back then. And if the person complaining has been a passholder for 15 years, that basically means they started skiing at SB when SB had some of their lowest skier visits on record (which was not a good thing from a sustainability perspective). Sugarbush has seen their skier visits steadily increasing for a number of years now. I'm sure Ikon is adding some people, but I also think the "crowding" complaints are massively overblown. And I say this as a nearly 10 year SPH.

I generally agree with this.

One thing not brought up in this running debate is are the huge crowd days more concentrated today than they were back in the 80s? In other words, there's far better forecasting and live information about when it snows in the mountains than ever before. Does that produce greater swings in typical weekend business than it did in the past?

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