Sugarloaf 2020

mccleaks · Dec 12, 2019

With the new year around the corner I randomly remembered this morning that Sugarloaf had once released a vision for the future of the mountain and called it "Sugarloaf 2020". I think they first released their master plan around the time the Burnt Mountain woods were first being cut (2010-ish?). So I googled it this morning to try and see how they have been doing in keeping up with the plan that was laid out years ago. Mostly what I had remembered was that the finishing touch is supposed to be some form of a new top to bottom lift to finally replace the gondola that closed when I was a kid.

I did some googling and I can find a Sugarloaf 2020 blog they have on a tublr page, but the original website www.sugarloaf2020.com seems to no longer exist. For the most part I think they have met most of their goals with all of the expansion to Burnt, upgrading snowmaking, upgrading lifts (Spillway and King Pine, possibly forced ahead of schedule), Lodge/village improvements, etc. Just curious if anyone can find the original list of goals and if anyone knows if there is still a plan for a top to bottom lift to finally replace the gondola?

ss20 · Dec 12, 2019

Run a gondola up to the top and it'd be down half the time due to the wind. Run a gondola up to the tree line below the snowfields, and run a T-bar the rest of the way.

mccleaks · Dec 12, 2019

ss20 said:
Run a gondola up to the top and it'd be down half the time due to the wind. Run a gondola up to the tree line below the snowfields, and run a T-bar the rest of the way.

I 100% agree that a new gondola is not the answer. The old one hardly ever ran due to wind. But maybe a fixed grip chair? I think a top to bottom lift of some sort there would really help spread the crowds out and just overall improve the flow of the mountain. Also only needing to ride one lift for something like 2300' of vertical would be pretty awesome especially offloading at the top of some of the best terrain on the mountain.

deadheadskier · Dec 12, 2019

ss20 said:
Run a gondola up to the top and it'd be down half the time due to the wind. Run a gondola up to the tree line below the snowfields, and run a T-bar the rest of the way.

Not realistic. There is zero room to put a top gondola terminal anywhere that isn't significantly further down hill from where Spillway ends without blasting a massive hole in the side of the mountain. There's barely enough room to accommodate the top terminal of the FGQ as is. Basically you'd be looking at ending it around where the old mid station was, which would make it a pretty worthless lift.

A surface lift from top of Spillway would be feasible to lookers right. You could probably find a way to put something in skiers right of Narrow Gauge ext.

IMO, running a new chair up Bucksaw to Bullwinkle's and then realigning Timberline to extend it down to Bullwinkle's is about the only feasible way of offering more convenient chairlift access to the summit

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EPB · Dec 12, 2019

deadheadskier said:
Not realistic. There is zero room to put a top gondola terminal anywhere that isn't significantly further down hill from where Spillway ends without blasting a massive hole in the side of the mountain. There's barely enough room to accommodate the top terminal of the FGQ as is. Basically you'd be looking at ending it around where the old mid station was, which would make it a pretty worthless lift.

A surface lift from top of Spillway would be feasible to lookers right. You could probably find a way to put something in skiers right of Narrow Gauge ext.

IMO, running a new chair up Bucksaw to Bullwinkle's and then realigning Timberline to extend it down to Bullwinkle's is about the only feasible way of offering more convenient chairlift access to the summit

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Agreed. There's plenty of speculation on Sugarloaf today. Much of it revolves around replacing the super quad with a six pack and re-installing the quad somewhere in West mountain - most likely the survey line they cut a few years back. I guess the speculation originated from comments made at an annual meeting this fall.

I've always liked the idea of extending the Timberline lift line far enough dowm so it could be accessed from Bullwinkle's (i.e. out of bounds the way the boundary line is drawn today).

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thetrailboss · Dec 10, 2021

Bump.

They are now up to Sugarloaf 2030 now.

According to LiftBlog and The Unofficial Sugarloaf Chat, a truck from Montana showed up last week carrying parts of the now former Big Sky Swift Current HSQ. As many of you know, Boyne said that it was going to refurbish the lift and locate it to a "ski area in Maine." Looks like they intend it to be at Sugarloaf. Unless they are just storing it there for SR or Shawnee Peak. Anyone in the know?

thebigo · Dec 10, 2021

thetrailboss said:
Bump.

They are now up to Sugarloaf 2030 now.

According to LiftBlog and The Unofficial Sugarloaf Chat, a truck from Montana showed up last week carrying parts of the now former Big Sky Swift Current HSQ. As many of you know, Boyne said that it was going to refurbish the lift and locate it to a "ski area in Maine." Looks like they intend it to be at Sugarloaf. Unless they are just storing it there for SR or Shawnee Peak. Anyone in the know?

Ethan, sugarloaf marketing, mentioned west mountain may be a refurb hsdq. I haven't checked the numbers to see if it fits. I am sure the sl chat people are all over it.

machski · Dec 10, 2021

thebigo said:
Ethan, sugarloaf marketing, mentioned west mountain may be a refurb hsdq. I haven't checked the numbers to see if it fits. I am sure the sl chat people are all over it.

It more than fits for West at SL. Swift was one of the longest HSQ's in the country and has a very large HP motor. If they do what they are suppose to with Jordan to Barker at SR, will be damn close to a brand new lift when it goes in.

Tin Woodsman · Dec 13, 2021

Swifty will almost certainly be the new West Mountain lift. Kind of lame if you ask me - a refurbished quad, irrespective of its speed, fits the definition of a "signature lift" for precisely 0 people outside of Boyne HQ. I feel bad for the long-suffering Loafers who have to now rationalize this while Sunday River gets a brand new 8 pack about 20 years before there is sufficient demand to warrant it on the far edge of the resort.

thebigo · Dec 13, 2021

A signature lift at the loaf should go to the summit. If used at west mountain preserves sufficient capital for a new summit lift, I think everyone will be happy. A new 6 from bullwinkles to a rebuilt summit building would be a game changer. Possible they want to evaluate wind resistance at Jordan before determining the next step but they should communicate clearly with the public.

Tin Woodsman · Dec 13, 2021

thebigo said:
A signature lift at the loaf should go to the summit. If used at west mountain preserves sufficient capital for a new summit lift, I think everyone will be happy. A new 6 from bullwinkles to a rebuilt summit building would be a game changer. Possible they want to evaluate wind resistance at Jordan before determining the next step but they should communicate clearly with the public.

I don't disagree on the importance of the Timberline replacement, but that being a "signature lift" was inevitable. To see Boyne move the goal posts from "West Mtn will be a signature lift" to "you'll get a refurbished HSQ so we can afford what everyone knew was going to be a signature lift to the summit" is a bit of a come down. They also appear to have significantly scaled back on the trail work they are planning to do in the West Mtn pod as well if the latest renderings are any indication.

Seems like just more of the same ol' story for Loafers. smh

thebigo · Dec 13, 2021

There is a comment on liftblog claiming the swift current carriers were loaned to Sundance this season for the outlaw express.

deadheadskier · Dec 13, 2021

West Mountain terrain is pretty pedestrian. Not sure a "signature lift" belongs over there. Quite frankly, I think the Loaf would be best served investing in improvements on the main mountain first. Start with the Double Runners and Superquad. Maybe use the Superquad to replace Timberline and realign it down to Bullwinkle's. Increased uphill capacity is needed at Sugarloaf far more than terrain expansion.

crystalmountainskier · Dec 13, 2021

thebigo said:
There is a comment on liftblog claiming the swift current carriers were loaned to Sundance this season for the outlaw express.

Accurate. Sundance's chairs are stuck in the Pacific.

machski · Dec 14, 2021

deadheadskier said:
West Mountain terrain is pretty pedestrian. Not sure a "signature lift" belongs over there. Quite frankly, I think the Loaf would be best served investing in improvements on the main mountain first. Start with the Double Runners and Superquad. Maybe use the Superquad to replace Timberline and realign it down to Bullwinkle's. Increased uphill capacity is needed at Sugarloaf far more than terrain expansion.

I think this is most likely the plan. West Mountain is to be a new day access point (badly needed) and a home owner access lift. Being it doesn't come right out of the base, I don't see the need for it to be a Signature lift. Especially with the plan to shift the planned DH bike park over towards Whiffletree.

Save the capital and replace Superquad with either a D-Line 6 or 8 down the road. Seems to make the most sense to me.

Yes, Sunday River is getting a brand new 8 at Jordan, principally to try and deal with wind issues over there. The capacity increase is not all that large and honestly, probably not enough to absorb weekend/holiday lines all that much over there as is, let alone added draw of that lift. BUT, the long suffering Barker with its own crowding issues weekends/holidays will just be getting a re-used Jordan HSQ vs a new 6 as had long been telegraphed by management. It will be the first time Boy e replaces a HSQ with another used/refurbed HSQ.

Newpylong · Dec 14, 2021

You're not going to see the Superquad reused anywhere most likely. In being a CTEC-Garaventa install it's a fairly oddball at this point and while not obsolete yet it has far more hours than Jordan does. I guess the towers could be reused, but that's it IMHO.

deadheadskier · Dec 14, 2021

Newpylong said:
You're not going to see the Superquad reused anywhere most likely. In being a CTEC-Garaventa install it's a fairly oddball at this point and while not obsolete yet it has far more hours than Jordan does. I guess the towers could be reused, but that's it IMHO.

Good to know. And who knows, maybe a HSQ would never work on the Timberline route anyway. It's so windy up there. I'd bet in the 50ish days I've skied Sugarloaf, that lift has spun maybe 40% of the time. For that reason, I think the idea of a "signature lift" that goes to the summit as fools gold in general. Some folks want to see a ttb gondola come back and simply forget just how often the old one didn't run because of wind.

The Superquad seems like the only place a signature lift belongs at Sugarloaf. Throw in the highest capacity 8 person lift you can up it. It probably services more terrain than any other lift in New England. It also has one of the worst Saturday lift lines of any lift in the region. IMO upgrading it should be their number one priority. I feel the same about Barker Quad at Sunday River. I guess I don't think like Boyne does!

Newpylong · Dec 14, 2021

Agreed, I also don't believe there is adequate terrain for all ability levels should a new TTB gondola or other signature lift be reinstalled to the summit. I think more limited access like Timberline while not perfect, works well. I do think given its length that lift should be high speed though, with as much wind mitigation as possible up to and including closing Cinder Hoe.

deadheadskier · Dec 14, 2021

Newpylong said:
Agreed, I also don't believe there is adequate terrain for all ability levels should a new TTB gondola or other signature lift be reinstalled to the summit. I think more limited access like Timberline while not perfect, works well. I do think given its length that lift should be high speed though, with as much wind mitigation as possible up to and including closing Cinder Hoe.

Here's an idea. Run the new Timberline chair from Bullwinkle's to the bottom of Cinder Hoe where all of the Upper and Lower Timberline Pod trails basically intersect. Then put a surface lift up the side of Cinder Hoe. You'd be able to access the top summit surface lift from Skyline, Bateau and the new Timberline chair. The new Timberline chair probably closes for wind less often as the top terminal is lower down and more protected. You get the summit surface lift desired without messing with Narrow Guage or Toll Road extension.

The only issue with this plan is that without a summit chair, they likely wouldn't be able to do anything with the old summit Gondola building. But, from a pure skiing perspective and having lifts running, I think my plan works really well.

thebigo · Dec 14, 2021

Arrived at loon this am. Kanc 8 and north peak on hold, gondola running. Kanc 8 got running and then went down again. It is a breezy day but nothing like you see at the loaf. My first experience with the kanc 8 is not engendering much faith that a similar lift is the solution for a high wind install. It is a nice lift though.

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