Are We Seeing the End of Regular Season Passes? - Page 2

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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jimk View Post
    I think the first season for Epic Pass was 08/09 and when it came out it dropped a Vail pass from $1,849 to $579. Now it's what, $939?
    All while improvements at Vail Resorts across the entire platform have decreased (when looking at an $ spent per resort ratio).

    Killington and Mount Snow both completed probably the most extensive transformations of Northeastern resorts over the past 15 years and they were single-mountain passes for all of that time (minus Peaks pass, but that was only the past 3 years or so iirc).

    2019-2020 59 days and holding...
    Thunder Ridge: 12/7, 12/8, 12/21, 12/26, 12/27, 12/28, 12/29, 12/31, 1/4, 1/5, 1/11, 1/17, 1/18, 1/19, 1/26, 2/1, 2/2, 2/8, 2/9, 2/15, 2/16, 2/20, 2/21, 2/22, 2/23, 3/7, 3/8
    Killington: 11/15, 12/16, 12/17, 12/18, 12/19, 12/20, 12/23, 1/3, 1/30, 1/31, 2/13, 2/27, 3/12
    Mount Snow: 11/27, 12/2, 12/24 Sunday River: 1/8, 1/9, 1/10 Greek Peak: 1/13, 1/14 Jiminy Peak: 12/6 Catamount: 12/13, 3/5 Pico: 12/19, 2/28 Mohawk: 12/27 Burke: 1/1 Ragged: 1/2 Wildcat: 1/6 Cannon: 1/7 Jay Peak: 1/23 Mad River Glen: 1/24 Magic: 2/14
    "Skiing is the closest you'll get to flying without leaving the ground." -snowmonster

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Pez View Post
    The problem I see with these mega passes is the bigger ski areas pricing themselves out of the 4-6 day a year casual skiers. $100+ a day to me is insane. Some people who love the sport just can't commmit to more than a handful of times, and for them to have to shell out that kind of money.... I was in that 4-6 times a year skier about 20 years ago and if I had to pay these current rates IDK if I would have even skied that much.

    Yesterday I thought about a half day at Mount Snow... but they weren't offering their $49 deal... 99 bucks to ski limited trails with crap conditions, and deal with those crowds... well no thanks.

    But ya, sooner of later this model is going to come crashing down.
    I've brought this guys podcast up before, but the Storm Skiing Podcast recently had on the CEO of liftopia, and it was interesting to hear him talk about how they help smaller places use dynamic pricing to get people to commit to single days on the cheap. I pre-bought some tickets to Plattekill shortly thereafter for $33/pop. I have family coming in that weekend. The weather might suck, but they got my money already anyway. Pre-committing is a trend that is likely to become more pervasive - and hopefully more smaller places figure out how to harness it to capture the very people you mention.

    Keep in mind, too that the super passes track where guests ski. I'd expect them to use this data to make more pricing tiers/options in the future. Too many people in the cottonwoods? They can create a more expensive Ikon for that. Too many people at Mt. Snow/Okemo/Sunapee/Huntee? Vail can upcharge/limit access for those places, too.

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    Ski season is always too short

  3. #13
    Glad you brought up the ASC days. Cheap passes, crazy lines; it wasn't all sunshine and powder. Me and the Mrs. buy our pass to the mountain we ski at; just the run of the mill "this mountain only" value pass. I think we pay $400 each if we buy at the end of the season. We have a few blackout dates, but I just look at that as them paying us to not show up when it's ultra busy.
    SoVT

  4. #14

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    Doesn't Alterra offer single mountain season passes at most of their resorts? I know that Vail does at their really small ski areas and a couple of their resorts, plus they have all the other types of passes they offer for CA and CO ski resorts. It wouldn't surprise me to see Vail offer some limited types of passes in the northeast and down here in PA.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbedle View Post
    Doesn't Alterra offer single mountain season passes at most of their resorts? I know that Vail does at their really small ski areas and a couple of their resorts, plus they have all the other types of passes they offer for CA and CO ski resorts. It wouldn't surprise me to see Vail offer some limited types of passes in the northeast and down here in PA.
    Alterra will piss a lot of people off if they don't offer an unlimited/unrestricted Sugarbush only season pass

  6. #16
    JimG.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WWF-VT View Post
    Alterra will piss a lot of people off if they don't offer an unlimited/unrestricted Sugarbush only season pass
    I'm sorry to say that a lot of people are going to be pissed off. They may offer it but it will cost more than now.

    Like ss20 Killington is just the best place for me to ski taking everything into account. I think the $1,000 season pass price is reasonable and based on the 20-25 days a season I ski there a good value for me. I'm not happy to see any Ikon passholders there and I think it's a bit of a slap at passholders like me that Ikon passholders get some benefits like going to the season passholder party or opening passholder day. But I'm not going to be a big baby about it either and there's no need to complain...yet.

  7. #17
    Newpylong's Avatar
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    Single mountain passes will never go away - the multi mountain model is not for everyone (customer or mountain).

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimG. View Post
    I'm sorry to say that a lot of people are going to be pissed off. They may offer it but it will cost more than now.

    Like ss20 Killington is just the best place for me to ski taking everything into account. I think the $1,000 season pass price is reasonable and based on the 20-25 days a season I ski there a good value for me. I'm not happy to see any Ikon passholders there and I think it's a bit of a slap at passholders like me that Ikon passholders get some benefits like going to the season passholder party or opening passholder day. But I'm not going to be a big baby about it either and there's no need to complain...yet.
    Assuming on at least the full Ikon SB becomes unlimited, how will that be at most significantly more than a current unlimited SB only pass next year?

    The comment about the first Epic pass pricing to today's pricing is a bit hard to judge as apples to apples. They had what, 5 or so areas on it when it first came out, mostly or totally in CO? Now it has how many areas unlimited on it plus how many more with partnership access? The cost increase seems worth it to me!

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  9. #19
    thetrailboss's Avatar
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    A lot of good responses. Here are a few comments....

    Quote Originally Posted by JimG. View Post
    And that will disrupt the collect money early model many resorts use to fund upgrades.

    Which I think will lead to even fewer people buying single mountain passes. The end result will be more ski areas going out of business.
    Good point. However, with a lot of resorts now doing summer activities, do they rely on the funding as much as they did before?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdskier View Post

    Passes like Ikon are making the largest impact to other forms of passes to those resorts. What I mean by that is many Ikon people are using that to replace day tickets or other discounted options like quad packs. Some resorts are seeing a significant drop in those type of things and thanks to technology are able to tell that those same people switched to Ikon (There was some interesting stats on this from one resort in Chris Diamond's latest Ski Inc 2020 book). So ultimately you are going to see those other deals continue to dry up. That's going to be one of the biggest downsides for people that don't join a multi-pass. But as you pointed out, there are still a lot of independent areas out there. This is a great potential opportunity for them to offer better day ticket prices and capture people that don't want to get a multi-pass.
    Very good point. I did not think of that. And I need to get Chris Diamond's book.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    I've written about this more extensively, but eventually Vail's going to fail. Might take a decade or so to complete the cycle, and then the future will be more like the past. This mega pass thing wont last forever. If you have one, enjoy it until the price increases that they're telling you wont happen, happen.
    Can you link me to the post where you outlined this argument? It does seem like they are getting pretty big pretty fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pez View Post
    The problem I see with these mega passes is the bigger ski areas pricing themselves out of the 4-6 day a year casual skiers. $100+ a day to me is insane. Some people who love the sport just can't commmit to more than a handful of times, and for them to have to shell out that kind of money.... I was in that 4-6 times a year skier about 20 years ago and if I had to pay these current rates IDK if I would have even skied that much.
    That is a huge issue. I have seen a lot of coverage and discussion about this problem.

    Yesterday I thought about a half day at Mount Snow... but they weren't offering their $49 deal... 99 bucks to ski limited trails with crap conditions, and deal with those crowds... well no thanks.
    Did you expect that deal on a Holiday Week?
    Live, Ski, or Die!


  10. #20
    thetrailboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ss20 View Post
    All while improvements at Vail Resorts across the entire platform have decreased (when looking at an $ spent per resort ratio).

    Killington and Mount Snow both completed probably the most extensive transformations of Northeastern resorts over the past 15 years and they were single-mountain passes for all of that time (minus Peaks pass, but that was only the past 3 years or so iirc).
    I, too, have noticed that Vail has slowed down with the improvements and has also done smaller projects. Take for example the new lift that they installed at Canyons/Park City this year (the "Over and Out"). Instead of a Dopp or a Poma brand lift, or a HS lift, they installed a SkyTrac lift that was likely less expensive. Granted it is a transfer lift and one that is not of any huge importance. They also were faced with TONS of backlogged maintenance at Crested Butte (which still surprises me). Same thing--a SkyTrac fixed grip. No replacement of the older HSQ's. I would have expected the Vail of old to come in and do a major revamp to create interest. It will be interesting to see if they upgrade any lifts at Attitash or Wildcat.

    Quote Originally Posted by eastern powder baby View Post
    Keep in mind, too that the super passes track where guests ski. I'd expect them to use this data to make more pricing tiers/options in the future. Too many people in the cottonwoods? They can create a more expensive Ikon for that. Too many people at Mt. Snow/Okemo/Sunapee/Huntee? Vail can upcharge/limit access for those places, too.

    Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app
    Trust me. A lot of us here in SLC selfishly hope that this WILL happen. Ikon works well with ski areas spread out. But with FIVE Ikon resorts in such a small area it has created chaos. Why would someone in SLC buy a pass to one area when one can get pretty damn good access to FIVE with the same amount of money? At the very least, a lot of locals hope that the resorts will restrict Ikon days or get rid of it. Methinks though that Alterra incentivized ski areas to do the seven day deal instead of the five. And, again, LiftBlog.org reported that Alterra has said that Ikon pass sales increased 60% over last season. That is insane.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbedle View Post
    Doesn't Alterra offer single mountain season passes at most of their resorts? I know that Vail does at their really small ski areas and a couple of their resorts, plus they have all the other types of passes they offer for CA and CO ski resorts. It wouldn't surprise me to see Vail offer some limited types of passes in the northeast and down here in PA.
    I've wondered this too. I did not notice an option for Steamboat. I thought that Vail did an "Epic Local" for Park City, but in looking at it, they have made that their pass for their smaller resorts.
    Live, Ski, or Die!


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