It's so bad you have to pay people to move to Vermont - Page 3

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  1. #21
    vermont will always be small, remote, and cold...the growing season and land quality do not lend themselves to serious AG and nobody is making a real living tilling rocky fields with horses. farm to table only works where you have transplant trustafarians who can afford the high prices. you can slashl the taxes and kill all the endangered animals in the state and it will still not change those facts. tourism and niche AG are about all its got. this aint the 1790's and i don't see it becoming the new tech hotbed either. it is what it is. the bleak-ass ride up 22a, that's the real vermont.


  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by spring_mountain_high View Post
    vermont will always be small, remote, and cold...the growing season and land quality do not lend themselves to serious AG and nobody is making a real living tilling rocky fields with horses. farm to table only works where you have transplant trustafarians who can afford the high prices. you can slashl the taxes and kill all the endangered animals in the state and it will still not change those facts. tourism and niche AG are about all its got. this aint the 1790's and i don't see it becoming the new tech hotbed either. it is what it is. the bleak-ass ride up 22a, that's the real vermont.
    So you say Vermont is pathetic and always will be no matter what cuz thems the facts. But, I doubt your pessimism is shared by the working people of the state nor the businesses. My guess is that their big concerns aren't the cold or the size of the state or horses plowing fields, but rather the hostile tax structures that make economic life harder than in other states.

  3. #23
    "Vermonters pay an average of 10.3% of their income in state and local taxes every year, one of the highest shares of any state. Vermonters pay more in taxes on average than residents of any other state. The state collects an average of $4,950 per taxpayer annually, the most of any state and about $2,000 more than is typical across all states."

    -- USA Today, 6 April 2018

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    My stepsister is the best kisser in the park bud! Show some respect!
    LOL - that was good.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Orca View Post
    "Vermonters pay an average of 10.3% of their income in state and local taxes every year, one of the highest shares of any state. Vermonters pay more in taxes on average than residents of any other state. The state collects an average of $4,950 per taxpayer annually, the most of any state and about $2,000 more than is typical across all states."

    -- USA Today, 6 April 2018
    That's sobering. When it comes time, even though I might have a retirement ski home in VT, I might need to have a residence for 181 days somewhere else.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by mister moose View Post
    That's sobering. When it comes time, even though I might have a retirement ski home in VT, I might need to have a residence for 181 days somewhere else.
    It's not just the income tax that gets you (the income tax rates aren't, IME, all that bad; with a relatively steady income level, I didn't see a lot of difference in Vermont vs. Montana vs. Maine); it's that in combination with a high cost of living, plus sales tax.

    The sales tax has more carve outs than some states, but 6% on almost everything adds up quickly, especially vehicles.

    The high cost of housing, while influenced by regulatory regime, isn't that alone; you can get a nice place pretty cheap in some parts of Vermont, it just won't be particularly close to particularly good ski terrain or employment opportunities (Jay may be an exception because it's so damn far from everything else). Again IME, but I think the out-of-state money driving up real estate values around tourist centers is a big part of the housing-cost issue, and if there's a way to regulate yourself out of it, I'm not sure what that is.

    I've looked at the tax data from a couple of different sources, as well as my own results, and while Vermont is a relatively high-tax state, so are most of its neighbors, so I don't think that's the only piece of the puzzle.

    Oh, and don't forget that there is a property-tax credit for Vermont being your primary residence, so that would offset some of the income-tax hit. If you're actually going to try to beat the system, you'll need to take a close look at a lot of details; things like how many vehicles you own can have a significant impact.
    Last edited by kbroderick; Jan 2, 2020 at 7:42 AM. Reason: Homestead tax
    Disclaimer: Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself, unless I'm saying something incredibly dumb, in which case I didn't say anything and you're hallucinating.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by spring_mountain_high View Post
    vermont will always be small, remote, and cold...the growing season and land quality do not lend themselves to serious AG and nobody is making a real living tilling rocky fields with horses. farm to table only works where you have transplant trustafarians who can afford the high prices. you can slashl the taxes and kill all the endangered animals in the state and it will still not change those facts. tourism and niche AG are about all its got. this aint the 1790's and i don't see it becoming the new tech hotbed either. it is what it is. the bleak-ass ride up 22a, that's the real vermont.
    This is precisely why being friendly to companies like IBM and trying to convince businesses that there is a solid base of young people that love VT graduating from its many Burlington area colleges to hire is a much better way forward than trying to gouge companies into oblivion (or more practically, into another state). People love going to VT for it's scenery/outdoor activities. Many more would make it their permanent home if it has a more robust business scene.

    It's 2020. Nobody in the developed world wants to be an agrerarian or oil-based economy. Why you continue to hold up the fact that VT can't be one demonstrates that economics is not in your wheelhouse - which is fine because we all cultivate specialized skill sets in the developed world. Commodity businesses are notoriously cyclical and have slim profit margins. They do not provide the abundance of stable college-level jobs that service-based companies do.

    Does VT have the economic resources of Westchester County, NY? Of course not. But there are countless "bleak ass rides" you could take in upstate, central and western NY, too (same goes for your native PA by the way). The reason why VT as a whole has fared so poorly is much to do with their (and your) misunderstanding of how businesses make location decisions (which isn't tough - just put the shoe on the other foot and ask why Business X would want to put up with my regulatory regime). The foundation for a strong Burlington-area economy exists, but leadership and the electorate has stood in its own way.

    Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app
    Ski season is always too short

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by mbedle View Post
    LOL - that was good.
    Ah the two trumptards but there 6 brain cells together and made a funny

  9. #29

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by FBGM View Post
    Ah the two trumptards but there 6 brain cells together and made a funny
    Have you made a single intelligent comment on this site?

    Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app
    Ski season is always too short

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