It's so bad you have to pay people to move to Vermont - Page 9

AlpineZone

Page 9 of 55 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 550
  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpsis View Post
    Orca, what exactly is your point here??




    You're carping about high taxes in VT, which if compared to a bunch of other states, are not really all that bad. There is plenty of other states with higher taxes and higher living expenses, but I don't hear you bitching about NY, NJ or CT, just to name a few.
    This is false.

    You have to look at the economic picture in its' entirety, and yes, Vermont really is "all that bad" in this perspective. Vermont is essentially close to as expensive, as expensive, or more expensive to live in (or worse) than some of those above states you referenced. I am quite familiar with both VT & NJ, and I could make the argument that Vermont is actually more expensive than even New Jersey from a C.O.L. perspective once everything's factored in (salary, taxes, food, etc..). To really simplify it, your house is Vermont is probably pretty cheap, but everything else probably isn't. That's the saving grace for Vermont when you looks at hose Most/Least expensive places to live chart. But to think Vermont is a "cheap" place to live is really misguided. It aint.
    President - Bicknell's Thrush Extermination Solutions (BTES), LLC



  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by flakeydog View Post

    Virtually anywhere else that has this kind of access to outdoor recreation (skiing, hiking, boating, fishing, hunting, etc) is expensive, devoid of legit job opportunities, isolated from quality cultural and medical facilities, or is not a great place to live year round.
    I get all the broader points you made, but I have to disagree with the one above. There are myriad places in this country where you can do all of the above (and frankly much better than in Vermont) and still have a nice job and be 20 or 30 minutes to a hospital, etc...
    President - Bicknell's Thrush Extermination Solutions (BTES), LLC



  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by gregnye View Post
    Let's be real. The future of employment lies within Urban Areas.
    I used to get paid to predict the future, and not to be a DB, but I have to chuckle as how poor you are at it from your posts in this thread. Massive CBDs are growing less important with each passing day, and I believe there will be a commercial real estate crisis globally within 20 years. Some are already preparing for this, and I've been thinking how to invest for it ahead of the masses. My best current guess is many corporate skyscrapers will be turned into apartments, with the bottom floor being service industry, restaurants, and surviving retail.
    President - Bicknell's Thrush Extermination Solutions (BTES), LLC



  4. #84
    Nicely made points, flakeydog.
    They closely reflect how my VT living friends (and their friends) feel. Not having a ton of money, they enjoy a lifestyle that's high on value (what you get for your money). With a house close to lake Champlain and a nice sailboat, close proximity and access to everything they treasure, it's a good life, not easily attainable elsewhere.

    This especially resonates with me: "Vermont does not look the way it does by accident, there is something to be said about Vermont’s approach to growth and development (I have been to a lot of other places and Vermont is quite unique in this sense)"

    You can really feel it, almost from the moment you cross over from NH border. Perhaps it's just the anticipation of having a relaxed time in a truly beautiful space.
    Live for today

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Smellytele View Post
    Better of 2 evils type of voting.
    I guess people get pigeon holed into voting by party and VT has a majority of liberal leaning voters (happens the other way in red states). With that said you get what you pay for.
    Yup, liberal left politics sound great and nice and all but then there’s reality unfortunately.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Smellytele View Post
    With that said you get what you pay for.
    That statement shows a lot more faith in government than I have. You sure pay, but sometimes you don't get much or, worse, get something altogether harmful.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Yup, liberal left politics sound great and nice and all but then there’s reality unfortunately.
    +1

    Free stuff ain't free. It's taxpayer funded. There is, in fact, a difference.

  8. #88
    thetrailboss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    NEK by Birth; Alta/Snowbird by Choice
    Posts
    27,899
    Quote Originally Posted by gregnye View Post
    New Hampshire just steals off of Boston's success. I bet if we removed the entire 93 corridor from Salem NH to Concord NH, the rest of NH would be in a similar state as Vermont economy-wise. The rest of NH is just tourism in the White Mountains, some box stores in Lebanon, and whatever happens in Keene.
    I don't agree with that about NH "stealing off of Boston's success." Sure, a lot of companies and individuals moved up from Boston, and a lot of folks commute to Boston, but NH has long positioned itself as a low-tax and corporate-friendly state surrounded by states that are otherwise. Hence the retail industry in NH. That said, retail does not create a lot of good well-paying jobs.

    For those in Vermont that don't want to pay taxes, simply move to New Hampshire! It's not like we are in the midwest where every state takes 8 hours to drive through.
    I think the whole point of the thread is that too many folks have left Vermont.
    Live, Ski, or Die!


  9. #89
    thetrailboss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    NEK by Birth; Alta/Snowbird by Choice
    Posts
    27,899
    Quote Originally Posted by flakeydog View Post
    Bottom line is I can live very well here on a decent salary in a vacation paradise and still be productive in life and raise kids. What could be better than that? Virtually anywhere else that has this kind of access to outdoor recreation (skiing, hiking, boating, fishing, hunting, etc) is expensive, devoid of legit job opportunities, isolated from quality cultural and medical facilities, or is not a great place to live year round.
    I used to think the same, but once I got out and traveled I found a lot of places that have all of these things and lower costs of living and better income and career potential. I'm living in one area now.

    That “premium” I spoke of before is the quality of life here, it has value. I would have to be a very wealthy man to live this way anywhere else.
    I get this as well, but again, my question was how does paying high taxes contribute to this quality of life? It doesn't in fact. Vermont's infrastructure is in shambles because lawmakers from Chittenden county decided that VTrans should not determine what roads need work and they instead shifted control and money to Chittenden County. Look at Route 2. I won't comment about the complete lack of oversight and accountability by Vermont's government the last 10 years other than to say that there is a lot of conflicts of interest, self-dealing, and complete fraud. The attitude is that just because such deals benefit the "left" it is OK. Well, that doesn't make this kind of behavior acceptable. Need I remind folks about the EB-5 scandal? What sensible investor would ever invest in a Vermont business after that debacle?

    While I agree that some schools are very good, the fact is that most of Vermont's are not doing that "great" compared to the national average, and when considering the amount of money spent. I'm sure you have read the many articles about how schools are closing and consolidating because of costs. And, most disappointing, the State took over education funding in the late 1990's thanks to the Brigham decision in order to provide all kids with the same opportunities. Now more than 20 years later, guess what? The "gold towns" still have great schools while the rest of the towns are struggling. Here is one article on school performance in Vermont by Art Woolf, and before anyone labels him as "far-right", realize that he is Governor Kunin's former Chief Economist for the State back in the 1980's: https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/...ney/525909002/

    As to post-secondary education, outside of Middlebury, UVM (to some extent), Norwich, St. Mike's, and Champlain College, schools are really struggling. Vermont lost how many colleges last year? At least three by my count. Vermont's state colleges are grossly underfunded and they are slowly being consolidated and cut back so far that at least Johnson or Lyndon will probably soon be gone. Not good.

    Last comment is that the "high quality of life" and community that you and many love is not because of the work of highly-paid bureaucrats, but by people in the community who genuinely care and volunteer to make things better for everyone. Since you said you're from Vermont (like me) you probably get it and honestly you sound like a "doer" in your community. But the truth is that these types of folks have died or left. I'm not the Wolf of Wall Street or some ruthless businessman who only cares about money. I'm a Scout leader. I volunteer with my local community council. I mentor kids who are interested in a career like mine. I do lots of community service projects. I interview kids for my (Vermont) college alma mater. I donate money to many Vermont groups and organizations. I honestly try to be a good citizen and yes, we do pretty well thanks to our hard work. But ten years ago when I contacted my Rep who was the Whip in the Vermont House about concerns about increasing taxes and pushing more young people and other "contributors" out, I was told that "only revenue mattered." So guess what? Ten years later Vermont is struggling much more because "revenue" is down, communities are losing volunteers and other organizations because nobody wants to volunteer or can volunteer, there is a huge drug problem throughout the state, the State cannot adequately fund its public colleges or maintain its roads, and schools are shutting down or consolidating because there are not enough kids to justify costs. What I feared came pretty much true. And now the State lost our "revenue" and our community lost our hours volunteering and other benefits we provided to everyone else. Needless to say, our new area appreciates both.

    So it's great that you have a good gig. Good for you. But I think folks do need to take a critical look at what is going on and what needs to change if Vermont is going to be sustainable. Though Orca's posts are attention-grabbing they do raise a legitimate point to be discussed and not dismissed.

    And one last comment: the worst part of the situation is that those who can make a difference in the legislature are not at all looking at the underlying problems seriously. Instead, they go on tangents and focus on missions that although are noble are not really pressing at all. The first bill introduced for the session dealt not with these big issues of demographic challenges but instead on "decriminalizing sex work." Nero continues to play the fiddle while Rome burns.
    Last edited by thetrailboss; Jan 4, 2020 at 11:01 PM.
    Live, Ski, or Die!


  10. #90
    A great, holistically encompassing post by TTB.

    I "gave up" on the future of Vermont a while ago, predicting that it would turn into the hell-in-a-hand-basket that it's currently in the process of becoming now. I told my Vermont side of the family such about a decade or so ago, and they mostly laughed off my predictions & thought I just didn't get it because I'm not a Vermonter.

    They're not laughing anymore.
    President - Bicknell's Thrush Extermination Solutions (BTES), LLC



Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 7:30 AM.