It's so bad you have to pay people to move to Vermont

bdfreetuna · Jan 13, 2020

NY DirtBag said:
I thought everyone knew it was because of our bloated military, endless unfunded wars and tax breaks for the wealthy and corps.

I like the current policy of getting people off entitlement programs and avoiding/withdrawing from conflicts, meanwhile moving toward full spectrum dominance (ie Space Force) and energy independence.

Nobody wants to see the military buying $100,000 toilets but I think handing Iran $150,000,000,000 [and other wasteful aid to corrupt foreign gov and NGOs] might have been even a bigger problem.

BenedictGomez · Jan 13, 2020

NY DirtBag said:
I thought everyone knew it was because of our bloated military, endless unfunded wars and tax breaks for the wealthy and corps.

LOL. And so much of what you apparently "know" is propaganda.

Military spending? Yes, it's high. But it's not largely responsible for our debt.

Tax breaks for the wealthy (pure propaganda you've swallowed) & corporations? Allowing people & entities to keep more of the money THEY EARNED has never contributed 1 penny to the national debt.

The debt we have is because America has a spending problem, not because America has a, "we didnt take enough of people's lawful money" problem. And the single largest driver of American debt is healthcare expense, so yes, he's correct & you are wrong.

EDIT:

Oh, and Social Security is the most financially destructive program in the history of America. Just a total nightmare.

fbrissette · Jan 13, 2020

BenedictGomez said:
LOL. And so much of what you apparently "know" is propaganda.

Military spending? Yes, it's high. But it's not largely responsible for our debt.

Tax breaks for the wealthy (pure propaganda you've swallowed) & corporations? Allowing people & entities to keep more of the money THEY EARNED has never contributed 1 penny to the national debt.

The debt we have is because America has a spending problem, not because America has a, "we didnt take enough of people's lawful money" problem. And the single largest driver of American debt is healthcare expense, so yes, he's correct & you are wrong.

EDIT:

Oh, and Social Security is the most financially destructive program in the history of America. Just a total nightmare.

As a Canadian, I find your arguments utterly fascinating. You must think of Canada as an absolute failure since we obviously got it all wrong.

VTKilarney · Jan 13, 2020

fbrissette said:
As a Canadian, I find your arguments utterly fascinating. You must think of Canada as an absolute failure since we obviously got it all wrong.

Well, you guys love electing leaders who think that blackface is cool.

1dog · Jan 14, 2020

fbrissette said:
As a Canadian, I find your arguments utterly fascinating. You must think of Canada as an absolute failure since we obviously got it all wrong.

Not a failure - you get to do it the way you think is right - but your country did make a change to healthcare laws 20 or so years ago because a lot of Canadians ' got ill' in NY state or Florida just by chance. . . . last count there were 38 million Canadians. . . . 90% or so living within 100 miles of the US border. . . .is that just because of rivers, lakes and access to commerce? Maybe. We welcome great neighbors like you. . . . not better friends in WWII and other conflicts. . . . we just have 10X the people, far more diverse, and have a somewhat more free market, with slightly less taxation.

As for military spending - its actually one thing the Framers wanted and expected government to do -protect us, defend us against all enemies, foreign and domestic - not become a broken pension fund for the masses. . . . . one ( once again) that the goverment officials. . . . do not partake in. Why is that?

EPB · Jan 14, 2020

VTKilarney said:
Well, you guys love electing leaders who think that blackface is cool.

Ha - I knew that was coming eventually. I'm sure the Arabian Nights parties are WAY better in Canada. What a sanctimonious hypocrite Trudeau is.

I love Canada, don't get me wrong. I've been about 30 times all over the place. The US is a freer more prosperous country than Canada. We also stole less land and oil per capita from the indigenous population than Canada did, so they must really be doing something wrong economically. They should be at least a decade ahead of us in terms of GDP/capita.

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EPB · Jan 14, 2020

Also, I know this really shouldn't matter, but what type of p-word country has another country's Queen on their forget currency?

Totally happy you guys are up there doing things the way you want to do them. Don't envy you in the sightest.

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fbrissette · Jan 14, 2020

VTKilarney said:
Well, you guys love electing leaders who think that blackface is cool.

I'm no big fan of our insignificant prime Minister, but dressing as Aladin for an 'oriental nights' themed party hardly qualifies as blackface. Blame it on extreme political correctness.

fbrissette · Jan 14, 2020

eastern powder baby said:
Ha - I knew that was coming eventually. I'm sure the Arabian Nights parties are WAY better in Canada. What a sanctimonious hypocrite Trudeau is.

I love Canada, don't get me wrong. I've been about 30 times all over the place. The US is a freer more prosperous country than Canada. We also stole less land and oil per capita from the indigenous population than Canada did, so they must really be doing something wrong economically. They should be at least a decade ahead of us in terms of GDP/capita.

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Just for the record, I'm not implying that Canada got it all right (it certainly does not). What I find fascinating is the polarization of ideas in the US. In Canada, we have a centrist party, a centrist party slightly to the right and a centrist party slightly to the left. There is no widespread debate on military spending and entitlement programs.

EPB · Jan 14, 2020

fbrissette said:
Just for the record, I'm not implying that Canada got it all right (it certainly does not). What I find fascinating is the polarization of ideas in the US. In Canada, we have a centrist party, a centrist party slightly to the right and a centrist party slightly to the left. There is no widespread debate on military spending and entitlement programs.

I hear you. In full disclosure, I'd be much happier with less oscillation between poles than what we have. Give me a rotation of Bloomberg and Romney types any day. There are a number of factors that go into it here.

The primary system encourages policians to focus on their bases which pull conversations further to the left/right than necessary.

Our third parties are either farther away from center (Green), or getting way too theoretical and losing the forest through the trees (Libertarian). Both run D-level candidates because that's likely the best they can do.

The media doesn't help. Fox cracked the code that you make more money if you keep your viewers riled up and watching longer. MSNBC and CNN followed suit. Those "newsrooms" are rife with hacks and Americans are right not to trust them.

Social media has certainly made it worse. I assume that can be said everywhere though.

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fbrissette · Jan 14, 2020

eastern powder baby said:
I hear you. In full disclosure, I'd be much happier with less oscillation between poles than what we have. Give me a rotation of Bloomberg and Romney types any day. There are a number of factors that go into it here.

The primary system encourages policians to focus on their bases which pull conversations further to the left/right than necessary.

Our third parties are either farther away from center (Green), or getting way too theoretical and losing the forest through the trees (Libertarian). Both run D-level candidates because that's likely the best they can do.

The media doesn't help. Fox cracked the code that you make more money if you keep your viewers riled up and watching longer. MSNBC and CNN followed suit. Those "newsrooms" are rife with hacks and Americans are right not to trust them.

Social media has certainly made it worse. I assume that can be said everywhere though.

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Part of my fascination is with the absence of a third 'middle-ground' party. It's not clear to me why the emergence of a third credible is so complex in the US. The polarization is so great that it's also my understanding that most US citizen will vote GOP or Democrats for their entire life. In Canada, most people I know have at one point voted Conservative, Liberals and NDP. Heck, it's not uncommon to vote Conservative at the Federal level and Liberal at the Provincial elections a fw months later.

As to medias, I do watch CNN and FOX but exclusively for entertainment purposes. They are both covering alternate realities. Really fascinating.

cdskier · Jan 14, 2020

fbrissette said:
Part of my fascination is with the absence of a third 'middle-ground' party. It's not clear to me why the emergence of a third credible is so complex in the US. The polarization is so great that it's also my understanding that most US citizen will vote GOP or Democrats for their entire life. In Canada, most people I know have at one point voted Conservative, Liberals and NDP. Heck, it's not uncommon to vote Conservative at the Federal level and Liberal at the Provincial elections a fw months later.

As to medias, I do watch CNN and FOX but exclusively for entertainment purposes. They are both covering alternate realities. Really fascinating.

I fail to understand either how we have yet to come up with a "centrist" party of some sort (actually the real answer on why is probably too much money involved from both the far left and far right to let it happen). I guarantee there are many people (including myself) that would be right there voting for that party a good chunk of the time.

machski · Jan 14, 2020

Count me in on the centrist ideal. I hate the choices I have to make. Fiscal concerns are my top priority and alignment to Republican ideals in this topic currently seals me into this side. I hate it though because when it comes to social issues (personal liberty type things, not entitlement programs), I am diametrically opposed to the GOO religious conservatism ways (I take the NH motto to heart!). I'd like a party that blends these two ideals but that just doesn't exist as yet.

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abc · Jan 14, 2020

cdskier said:
I fail to understand either how we have yet to come up with a "centrist" party of some sort (actually the real answer on why is probably too much money involved from both the far left and far right to let it happen). I guarantee there are many people (including myself) that would be right there voting for that party a good chunk of the time.

Bloomberg? His NYC mayor record is a fiscal conservative and social liberal.

(but he chose to run as a D

)

cdskier · Jan 14, 2020

I find the "isidewith.com" website always interesting. Based on your answer to various issues, it will show you how well you align with different candidates and show you where you fall on the overall ideological spectrum (I'm a "right leaning libertarian centrist"). Not uncommon for the "top" candidate that most closely aligns to my values to only be at around 60-65% or so in common with me.

EPB · Jan 14, 2020

cdskier said:
I find the "isidewith.com" website always interesting. Based on your answer to various issues, it will show you how well you align with different candidates and show you where you fall on the overall ideological spectrum (I'm a "right leaning libertarian centrist"). Not uncommon for the "top" candidate that most closely aligns to my values to only be at around 60-65% or so in common with me.

I presume I would come out similarly. Will need to check this out.

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bdfreetuna · Jan 14, 2020

https://www.politicalcompass.org/ is another good one which IMO shows more relevant political polarities, "Economic Left vs Economic Right" and also "Authoritarian vs Libertarian" tendencies on the Left and Right.

on this test I place just slightly right and slightly libertarian, but for all practical purposes a bullseye on being a "moderate".

Which makes sense as I'm an Independent and generally find partisanship annoying.

That said I'm a pretty big fan of Trump and the policies of his administration. I think Trump and MAGA populism already represents a "3rd party". At least this is leading to a reform of the Republican party, which is no longer controlled by Neocons.

So the political re-alignment is happening. Leaving us with 3 primary groups:

NeoCons and NeoLiberals: Now finding they agree with each other in continuing to sabotage the country for the sake of globalism and criminality.

Socialists/Anarchists: Fortunately the smallest group, but large enough to screw over the Dems and cause a party split

MAGA Populists: Anti-globalist conservatives, libertarians, moderates and classical liberals tired of the excesses of recent "liberalism" and now joined together in the largest coalition

EPB · Jan 14, 2020

bdfreetuna said:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/ is another good one which IMO shows more relevant political polarities, "Economic Left vs Economic Right" and also "Authoritarian vs Libertarian" tendencies on the Left and Right.

on this test I place just slightly right and slightly libertarian, but for all practical purposes a bullseye on being a "moderate".

Which makes sense as I'm an Independent and generally find partisanship annoying.

That said I'm a pretty big fan of Trump and the policies of his administration. I think Trump and MAGA populism already represents a "3rd party". At least this is leading to a reform of the Republican party, which is no longer controlled by Neocons.

So the political re-alignment is happening. Leaving us with 3 primary groups:

NeoCons and NeoLiberals: Now finding they agree with each other in continuing to sabotage the country for the sake of globalism and criminality.

Socialists/Anarchists: Fortunately the smallest group, but large enough to screw over the Dems and cause a party split

MAGA Populists: Anti-globalist conservatives, libertarians, moderates and classical liberals tired of the excesses of recent "liberalism" and now joined together in the largest coalition

Way adrift if the topic, but he doesn't fit well into the classical US buckets despite the desire to label him as far right and overtly Republican. He's much more interventionalist in the economy than the Romney/Ryan archetypes. Also, he can't seem to figure out if he's isolationist or not. Same can be said for criminal justice. On one hand, he's "law and order" in others, he's working to shorten sentences with the Kardashians. I guess that's what we get when we don't have idealogues in office.

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abc · Jan 14, 2020

eastern powder baby said:
Way adrift if the topic, but he doesn't fit well into the classical US buckets despite the desire to label him as far right and overtly Republican. He's much more interventionalist in the economy than the Romney/Ryan archetypes. Also, he can't seem to figure out if he's isolationist or not. Same can be said for criminal justice. On one hand, he's "law and order" in others, he's working to shorten sentences with the Kardashians. I guess that's what we get when we don't have idealogues in office.

Trump isn't any 'ism' because he doesn't know what he's doing.

He does what makes the biggest headline.

Whether it's good or bad for the country, now or down the road, doesn't appear to concern him.

He's not that bad. If you read all the comments right here in this thread, you see a lot of people who can point out what's wrong with our current situation (economical or social), but their solution wouldn't work. That's Trump.

The fact people want to elect such a know-nothing guy to be the president is a lot more worrisome to me than Donald Trump the guy getting a second term.

bdfreetuna · Jan 14, 2020

abc said:
Trump isn't any 'ism' because he doesn't know what he's doing.

Transparently false statement to say a man with a life of high success, now President, with economy way up, no new wars, and looking likely to wipe the floor with any opponent in 2020 "doesn't know what he's doing".

abc said:
The fact people want to elect such a know-nothing guy to be the president is a lot more worrisome to me than Donald Trump the guy getting a second term.

oh, boo hoo

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