It's so bad you have to pay people to move to Vermont - Page 21

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  1. #201
    Duplicate
    Last edited by eastern powder baby; Jan 8, 2020 at 2:59 PM. Reason: Duplicate
    Ski season is always too short

  2. #202
    Of Vermont: "Businesses pay an effective property tax rate of 5.27%, the third highest in the country."

    -- CNN Business

  3. #203
    I would like to point out an aspect of the healthcare system I have not seen addressed here yet (appologies if I missed it)

    Our ERs are inundated with people who do not have enough sense to call their physicians for there stomach aches that they have had for two months. Drunks coming in daily because they are drunk, again,band leave before they can be offered help with their drinking problems. COPDers coming in weekly short of breath and in distress after smoking their 10th cigarette of the day, heart failure patients in with 10 pound weight gains because the won't stop eating TV dinners and fast foods. We see about 5-6 people who come in for STD testing or pregnancy tests.

    People who have been given every opportunity to make changes in their lives time and time again continually choose not to. Social welfare comes with unlimited access to these services at the cost of taxes to the Commonwealth. And the state reimbursements to our little facility and all local facilities are on a steep downward trajectory. Despite the cuts in funding all these frevelous services need to be seen and largely go unfunded. How long do people expect healthcare facilities to stay solvent? Small local hospitals will start to shutter and push the burden onto larger urban facilities to absourb the patient flow and cost burden.

    An unpopular view extended to elective vs emergent surgeries. We regularly (daily) preform procedures on a population of people who if someone objectively, would never be allowed to have surgeries. I have lost count of the pacemaker/defibrillators that have be put into patients who cannot even tell you their names because their irrational family members refuse to allow nature to run its course. Many other surgeries are allowed to happen because physicians are afraid to tell families no.

    For Universal Healthcare to happen there will need to be tremendous amount of regulation on who when and where things will happen and that goes against everything American. We want everything and we want it now (que Veruca voice - I want the goose who lays the golden eggs daddy). The way people access healthcare needs to change as well as the expectations of what healthcare is and can deliver.

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    15-16 Killington 11-17-16

  4. #204

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    Many other surgeries are allowed to happen because physicians are afraid to tell families no.
    No, it's because the physicians will get paid.

    (It's not a Vermont issue though. It's nationwide)

    Yes, it's a systemic problem. As long as physicians get paid for procedures "fit" for the illness but totally inappropriate to the general situation of the PERSON, this problem will continue.

    My Mom used to work in hospital, mostly dealing with the poor (and largely under-educated) patients. Expensive AND PAINFUL surgeries were "recommended" to the patients, with total disregard to the overall well being of the patients! The poor patients, where do they get better information to refute the "recommendation" of the surgeons? They ended up being treated like meat on the butcher's table.

    There're good doctors, when working with well educated and well informed patients and their family, result in more human care and without wasting resources. (example, my uncle passed away recently, by refusing treatment that would only prolong his suffering) But those are often exceptions to the rule. Our "system" doesn't encourage that nor rewards it.

  5. #205
    JimG.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abc View Post
    There're good doctors, when working with well educated and well informed patients and their family, result in more human care and without wasting resources. (example, my uncle passed away recently, by refusing treatment that would only prolong his suffering) But those are often exceptions to the rule. Our "system" doesn't encourage that nor rewards it.
    I truly respect your uncle's decision.

    And the system discourages personal awareness; it wants to keep you alive until it can suck away all of your resources.

  6. #206
    "In Vermont, many people — both medical providers and the population at large — are beginning to see OneCare as something akin to the European Union. The University of Vermont Medical Center and Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center clearly run the show. They have bought up most of the independent practices and hospitals in the state and the decisions made for those practices are now made in OneCare’s corporate boardrooms by very highly paid executives, few of whom have any clinical experience. Medical providers in the field are inundated by computerized paperwork and spend over half their time on non-medical clerical work. The medical practices have been homogenized by required algorithms for patient care and practices have become franchises — similar to McDonalds."

    -- Louis Meyers, VTDigger, 2 January 2020

  7. #207
    JimG.'s Avatar
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    Totally true here in NY also. Horrifying if you think about it.


  8. #208
    kingslug's Avatar
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    I'm..pretty scared of our health care system...go to a specialist..see how many minutes they spend with you..then see what they proscribe as a fix....
    I stopped going to an orthopedist for my shoulders because it seemed like a joke...5 minutes..
    Lets go!
    I'll drive.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by kingslug View Post
    ..
    I stopped going to an orthopedist for my shoulders because it seemed like a joke...5 minutes..
    Reminds of of a George Carlin skit . Somewhere practicing in in the country is the worst doctor ....Audience laughter....
    Carlin..."What are you laughing about you might be his patient." There are lots of good doctors out there as well don't give up.

    Single payer is what scares me the most ! Putting faith in a government that thinks you're stupid!!! You can keep your plan?
    You can keep your doctor ? It was designed to fail from the start!!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6wljfbRaDM

    If you have a number of uninsured focus on them don't blowup the system !!!! I have to wonder if some states plan to bankrupt their budgets so the Federal government will bail them out ? Before that happens they'll declare bankruptcy to screw all the pensioners. If the economy is good now and the state has issues what happens when no one can afford to ski VT?

  10. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimG. View Post
    I truly respect your uncle's decision.

    And the system discourages personal awareness; it wants to keep you alive until it can suck away all of your resources.
    It took a lot of ground work prior.

    With help from a decent doctor, yes. He gave the family a realistic expectation. No cure, just more and worse suffering.

    He also offer a long list of “treatment” he could potentially do, had the family choose the opposite.

    That’s how a doctor should be. Many doctors are good.

    But sadly, plenty others are not so good. My Mom had seen a few such doctors. They only offer the long list of painful treatment, which may in fact took care of the issue temporarily but only left the patient worse off. Worse than dead.

    Truth being, having seen many of those, my Mom is terrified of similar thing happening to her. She reminds me of her wish every so often. Her wish for a quality life and a dignified end.

    She was the one who initiated a similar conversation with my cousin (son of my said uncle) only a few years back. At first, my cousin wasn’t sure how to broach the subject with his parents. But his Mom, my aunt, is actually a retired medical school professor (retired 30 years ago) So he talk to her first, then his family had an open discussion, which made clear everyone’s wishes. That, made the actual decision much easier when the time came.
    Last edited by abc; Jan 8, 2020 at 8:17 PM.

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