It's so bad you have to pay people to move to Vermont

KustyTheKlown · Jan 15, 2020

nope. tick your name off the list and vote.

"voter fraud" is a canard invented by the right to cling to power in the face of rapidly changing demographics, by engaging in outright voter suppression. i'm looking forward to when texas is so brown that it cannot be suppressed and all of a sudden its purple, then blue. let's throw puerto rico and DC statehood in the mix too.

the blueing of america is inevitable. but these dirty dawgs will hold on as long and fiercely as they can.

bdfreetuna · Jan 15, 2020

deadheadskier said:
While not quoted, pretty sure Krustys comment was in response to another poster stating that White Liberals are the most racist people in the country. Was that not a baseless, hyperbolic ad hominem attack as well?

The 5,000 current members of the actual KKK would be more racist, and also Black Supremacists ie BLM and Black Hebrew Israelites and also Islamists who hate Jews.

It's not an ad hominem attack because it's an evaluation more and more people are agreeing with as we see the destructive fallout of intersectional SWJ theory, and the circular firing squad mentality that ensues.

Yes, I would say the group in this country most constantly obsessed with race and looking for problems where they don't exist, and *openly* being racist against whites, are the most racist group in current society.

Candace Owens is the new MLK. Sorry Al Shapton!

KustyTheKlown said:
the blueing of america is inevitable. but these dirty dawgs will hold on as long and fiercely as they can.

Not when nearly half of hispanics are voting Trump and 1/3rd of blacks or more. I wouldn't underestimate the redpilling happening on a wide scale and objective persistent (D) party failures and consistent anti-American posturing.

KustyTheKlown · Jan 15, 2020

jesus christ. "BLM" is not "Black Supremacy". its simply asking for police to stop killing black people in routine confrontations.

bdfreetuna · Jan 15, 2020

KustyTheKlown said:
jesus christ. "BLM" is not "Black Supremacy". its simply asking for police to stop killing black people in routine confrontations.

That's what the Baizou think

If I started a "White Lives Matter" or let's say "It's OK to Be White" group, you'd call me a white supremacist.

That's because you're a Baizou.

Not Sure · Jan 15, 2020

KustyTheKlown said:
nope. tick your name off the list and vote.

"voter fraud" is a canard invented by the right to cling to power in the face of rapidly changing demographics, by engaging in outright voter suppression.

Seems both parties have their issues.

It is painful to me to be called a racist by total strangers who want to make political points with whoever. I’m white my wife is as well my daughter in-law is Asian my other son is dating a black girl my best friend is Puerto rican . None of my friends are even remotely racist.

When I see people on the other side demand a particular race vote Dem. I am reminded of a true racist “Lyndon Johnson “

KustyTheKlown · Jan 15, 2020

i'm not demanding anyone vote for anyone. i'm saying that the right has systemically suppressed minority votes because those votes are statistically more likely to be dem votes. and if demographics support more likely democrat voters becoming majorities in solidly red states, that's a bonus.

and i'm certainly not calling you, personally, a racist. most of you vote R because you care most about your money and that's your right to do. for myself, i cannot get past all the other shit that comes with R

and tuna, your "white lives matter" t-shirt disregards centuries of systemic racism. dont be obtuse.

bdfreetuna · Jan 15, 2020

That's a bigoted and prejudiced view against people who don't agree with your philosophy: To assign motives of "systematic suppression against minorities" is plainly ignorant. As an Independent I can clearly see the GOP has a way better record on race equality than Dems, although Dems have a great record of pandering and ruining inner cities and telling blacks how bad whitey is.

Your dreams of demographic change are falling flat as well, as I said hispanics are waking up to the Democrat con. Last I checked the conventional wisdom was Dems needed 90% of blacks to sustain a majority. You're down to 70% and dropping fast.

RIP party of war, racism, division, & treason

I don't care about your imagined "centuries of history" you really know jack shit about and certainly have zero understanding of any subtleties in any given situation. My family came from Canada and Ireland, we had no slaves, one side was Catholic and the other side was Protestant, so I am completely righteous in opposing your mindset of reparations. Both sides of my family were treated with prejudice when they arrived in New England, more openly and accepted at the time than attitudes towards hispanics today in our more integrated society. This was back when ethnic slurs were tossed back and forth with impunity.

I realize we're pushing the limits of discussion on this forum here so I'll take a break for the sake of the thread continuing.

deadheadskier · Jan 15, 2020

bdfreetuna said:
Not when nearly half of hispanics are voting Trump and 1/3rd of blacks or more. .

source?

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KustyTheKlown · Jan 15, 2020

lol. ok, because your ancestry is canadian and irish, america didn't import black people as slaves and treat them as second class citizens or less for most of american history. get a grip dude.

and if you really want to have a family oppression dick measuring contest, i'm an american jewish person and what was left of my family didn't show up in the good old US of A until the late 40s, after half of them were systemically murdered by a racist government.

bdfreetuna · Jan 15, 2020

deadheadskier said:
source

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/04/02/hispanics_rally_to_trump_boosting_his_2020_chances_139933.html

KustyTheKlown said:
lol. ok, because your ancestry is canadian and irish, america didn't import black people as slaves and treat them as second class citizens or less for most of american history. get a grip dude.

So what? Whites were slaves in different parts of the world at different times. Either way none of it involved me and not even indirectly.

Your only logic is I'm guilty by skin color, which makes you a racist. You know how long after slavery I was born? Members of my lineage were far more likely to be indentured servants than to ever have had slaves (0% chance there). I also typically side with Republicans who were anti-slavery during Civil War times. And I need to get a grip.. have fun with your white guilt for literally no reason

abc · Jan 15, 2020

bdfreetuna said:
These days you have to give real consideration to the likelihood that if mainstream media jumps on something as a conspiracy theory, they're engaged in a cover-up.

after all Epstein didn't kill himself

So, was Obama born outside the US?

KustyTheKlown · Jan 15, 2020

you're not guilty tuna, this isnt about you. but our government is, and continues to be when they engage in voter suppression.

bdfreetuna · Jan 15, 2020

KustyTheKlown said:
and if you really want to have a family oppression dick measuring contest, i'm an american jewish person and what was left of my family didn't show up in the good old US of A until the late 40s, after half of them were systemically murdered by a racist government.

I would think based on that you wouldn't throw around accusations of mass, systemic racism applying to half the population of the most peacefully integrated free society on the planet.

You're the one who called the forum a KKK rally so you're right about one thing, it's not about me.

abc said:
So, was Obama born outside the US?

EPB · Jan 15, 2020

KustyTheKlown said:
and i'm certainly not calling you, personally, a racist. most of you vote R because you care most about your money and that's your right to do. for myself, i cannot get past all the other shit that comes with R

Translation: "Now that I think about it, you're not a bad person because you're racist, you're a bad person because you're a selfish capitalist DB. My bad."

What a sanctimonious turd thing to say.

Don't feel bad about anything he's said to you. Real repugnance comes from people who ascribe malice to those who share perfectly reasonable, but different world views.

Klown - If you want to debate whether high taxes are actually better for the economy, I'd gladly continue the discussion. If you're out here to just thump your chest about your perceived moral superiority, I'd suggest you get over yourself.

ScottySkis · Jan 15, 2020

cdskier · Jan 15, 2020

skiur said:
Do these people not carry a cell phone with them? They are worried about ezpass tracking them when they have the ultimate tracking device in there pocket! This is the world we live in.

I'm sure they do. People are completely clueless about just how much data is tracked via cell phones. There's a fascinating article that was all about just how much you can track from "anonymous" cell phone data that was posted in our internal enterprise social network at work that people were discussing. I'll need to grab it tomorrow (don't feel like booting my work laptop up tonight). Very scary stuff that most people have absolutely no idea about.

cdskier · Jan 15, 2020

KustyTheKlown said:
"voter fraud" is a canard invented by the right to cling to power in the face of rapidly changing demographics, by engaging in outright voter suppression.

How is something that has plenty of documented cases considered a myth? And it is done by both sides, so not sure how it could be "invented by the right" when they are guilty of fraud in cases as well.

There's also been studies done that conclude there is no measurable impact on voter turnout from voter ID laws even among minority groups that supposedly would be suppressed (i.e. voter ID laws do not suppress votes).

drjeff · Jan 15, 2020

Siliconebobsquarepants said:
What makes the man on the street segment absurd? Times change racism is dying... let it die .

But if the premise that racism is as bad, if not worse than it's ever been in the US right now "dies" then the left looses a MAJOR talking point, and one that they use over and over to raise serious campaign funds.

If that goes away, then not only would they loose that donation easy talking point, but also potentially explain why that talking point wasn't as factual as they have implied it is for a long time now.

And that's a scary concept for a politician to face, that their donor base, and electorate as well, might question the statements that they're making.

If one just accepts that basically all politicians lie at times, and those lies are primarily done so to help stir up campaign donations and drive their base voters to the polls so they can either keep, or gain political power, so that they can control how to spend whatever budget they're in control of (local, state or federal) rather than necessarily doing what's "best" for their town/state/country even if it means agreeing with the "other caucus", then maybe this country can have an honest discussion about topics..

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icecoast1 · Jan 15, 2020

cdskier said:
How is something that has plenty of documented cases considered a myth? And it is done by both sides, so not sure how it could be "invented by the right" when they are guilty of fraud in cases as well.

There's also been studies done that conclude there is no measurable impact on voter turnout from voter ID laws even among minority groups that supposedly would be suppressed (i.e. voter ID laws do not suppress votes).

How does expecting someone to prove who they are suppress the vote? And considering all of the other things you need id for to function in society, including government assistance programs these people who allegedly are suppressed are on, you pretty much have to have some form of it anyway

kbroderick · Jan 15, 2020

cdskier said:
How is something that has plenty of documented cases considered a myth? And it is done by both sides, so not sure how it could be "invented by the right" when they are guilty of fraud in cases as well.

There's also been studies done that conclude there is no measurable impact on voter turnout from voter ID laws even among minority groups that supposedly would be suppressed (i.e. voter ID laws do not suppress votes).

Whether or not it worked, the Fourth Circuit seems pretty convinced that North Carolina's voter ID law was intended to do just that:

Fourth Circuit said:
Although the new provisions targetAfrican Americans with almost surgical precision, theyconstitute inapt remedies for the problems assertedly justifyingthem and, in fact, impose cures for problems that did not exist.
...
Faced with this record, we can only conclude that the NorthCarolina General Assembly enacted the challenged provisions ofthe law with discriminatory intent.

(decision: https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Published/161468.P.pdf)

Then there's the recent North Dakota law, which required a physical address on an ID for that ID to be valid for voting. Tribal IDs often lacked such things because physical addresses often weren't assigned on some (many? all? dunno) reservations. The law was upheld, but it did unquestionably make it harder for many native residents to vote, as they had to go replace otherwise valid tribal IDs first. I don't know if it actually changed the outcome, but the party responsible for changing the law did reclaim a Congressional seat.

Requiring a photo ID isn't a huge hurdle in most places.* Requiring one of a few very specific, state-issued or federally issued photo IDs with certain features, however, smells fishy, particularly when the state narrows an existing list of IDs to exclude those predominantly associated with certain voting habits (e.g. college IDs).

* on the original topic, though, it may be a hurdle for long-time Vermonters with non-photo licenses, as the DMV does still issue them to people who have them.

Of course, if you live in a small town in northern New England, ID requirements can seem pretty silly. "Hey, Bob, good to see you. Can I see your ID, please?"

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