It's so bad you have to pay people to move to Vermont

JimG. · Jan 15, 2020

This is what happens when we get spring in January! You guys all need to get out and ski.

Race has nothing to do with skin color or national origin. There is one race...human.

Maybe one day people will pull their heads out of their asses and stop arguing about these topics.

BenedictGomez · Jan 15, 2020

KustyTheKlown said:
"voter fraud" is a canard invented by the right

What is greatly amusing to me is he correctly identifies voter fraud as a right-wing canard (which is mostly true*), but he is completely incapable of realizing that voter suppression is a canard invented by the left.

Which so perfectly proves my point regarding political bias better than anything I could possibly pen.

*There IS voter fraud in America, and it mostly helps Democrats, but it is nowhere near as significant or as material an issue that many on the right try to scare voters into believing.

BenedictGomez · Jan 15, 2020

bdfreetuna said:
Whites were slaves in different parts of the world at different times. Either way none of it involved me and not even indirectly.

Interesting you bring this up, as I find almost nobody (and I literally mean that) is aware of this. Historically speaking, there were far more European-ancestry white people enslaved in Africa than African-ancestry people enslaved in America. Now, obviously ALL slavery is bad, but I find it intellectually interesting that so few people are aware of this historical fact.

My guess is MOST people here on AZ are wholly unaware of this and will probably have to GOOG what I'm talking about because they probably dont believe it. Most probably will be too embarrassed after Googling to come back & post here & admit they had no clue, but whatever, I just think it's interesting that we hear SO much about how terrible slavery of blacks obviously was, but we hear nothing of the terrible nature of whites enslaved during literally the same time period. It makes one wonder if at least some of the motivation behind the contemporary outcry > 150 years after the freeing of the slaves is truly righteous in nature, or if perhaps some of it is solely political in nature. I suspect it's a bit of both.

fbrissette · Jan 15, 2020

BenedictGomez said:
Which so perfectly proves my point regarding political bias better than anything I could possibly pen.

[/SIZE]

Political bias? You mean like stating that white liberals are the most racists people?

BenedictGomez · Jan 15, 2020

bdfreetuna said:
your perceived moral superiority

Precisely what I wrote about regarding the author who's book I learned about via Jon Stewart's show. Kusty is not an outlier, he is the norm.

The liberal voter typically views him/herself as morally superior to both independents and clearly to Conservatives, which they regard as "evil" or morally bankrupt. This "moral superiority" makes it easy for them to dismiss anything from the other side, and more dangerously, makes them quite easily swallow anything "their side" tells them to believe. If "they" are evil, obviously whatever we do is "just".

spring_mountain_high · Jan 15, 2020

BenedictGomez said:
Precisely what I wrote about regarding the author who's book I learned about via Jon Stewart's show. Kusty is not an outlier, he is the norm.

The liberal voter typically views him/herself as morally superior to both independents and clearly to Conservatives, which they regard as "evil" or morally bankrupt. This "moral superiority" makes it easy for them to dismiss anything from the other side, and more dangerously, makes them quite easily swallow anything "their side" tells them to believe. If "they" are evil, obviously whatever we do is "just".

just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you...

BenedictGomez · Jan 15, 2020

fbrissette said:
Political bias? You mean like stating that white liberals are the most racists people?

What you call "bias", I call an opinion based upon living a life almost entirely in very liberal jurisdictions.

And it's not an opinion I share alone, this belief that white liberals view nearly every issue through a prism of racism. It's essentially an obsession, often characterized by the term, "white guilt". And FWIW, I call it "accidental racism" in that white liberals are wholly unaware that their opinions & beliefs are racist; in fact, they likely believe they are the least racist people on the entire planet, while ironically simultaneously believing that black people cant walk & chew gum without government assistance.

bdfreetuna · Jan 15, 2020

fbrissette said:
Political bias? You mean like stating that white liberals are the most racists people?

In terms of popular mainstream groups in the USA. I'm a former Green/Progressive turned Conservative and now basically moderate/pro-MAGA but it was the blatant intolerance of the SJW crowd that really got me rethinking my values.

A lot of people are realizing this too which makes me think the "high horse" crowd is in for a rude awakening sooner or later.

My family is mixed race and the only ones who consider themselves victims of racial oppression are the socialists. That's not to minimize racism where it exists, but it reveals something about the lens through which we perceive our reality.

VTKilarney · Jan 15, 2020

A good friend, who happens to be homosexual, summed it up nicely when he said that he lost none of his conservative friends after coming out as gay, but all of his liberal friends after coming out as conservative.

abc · Jan 15, 2020

BenedictGomez said:
The liberal voter typically...

How many “liberal voters” do you actually know to conclude that they represents “typical”? 2? 3? 5?

Orca · Jan 16, 2020

KustyTheKlown said:
always blows my mind that this northeastern ski board is basically a klan rally half the time.

That is not an argument; that is a slur. It is a perfect exemplar of a disgusting form of discourse: call someone a racist in order to remove their standing in the debate. It is malicious and intellectually lazy.

Orca · Jan 16, 2020

BenedictGomez said:
The liberal voter typically views him/herself as morally superior to both independents and clearly to Conservatives, which they regard as "evil" or morally bankrupt.

Here is a specific example. Paul Krugman is a prominent liberal op-ed writer for the NY Times. This is the concluding sentence of his 26 November 2018 opinion piece: "Republicans don’t just have bad ideas; at this point, they are, necessarily, bad people." (Link)

Orca · Jan 16, 2020

BenedictGomez said:
What is greatly amusing to me is he correctly identifies voter fraud as a right-wing canard (which is mostly true*), but he is completely incapable of realizing that voter suppression is a canard invented by the left.

There is an incentive for lefties to exaggerate voter suppression and there is an incentive for righties to exaggerate voter fraud. Is it any surprise then that such allegations are casually made? It may be true that both fraud and suppression are both real and problematic. But it is surely true that there is a lot of motivation to assert that one is real and dismiss the other. Both sides demand evidence, but I doubt there is sufficient non-partisan effort made to even detect and quantify fraud and suppression.

fbrissette · Jan 16, 2020

Orca said:
That is not an argument; that is a slur. It is a perfect exemplar of a disgusting form of discourse: call someone a racist in order to remove their standing in the debate. It is malicious and intellectually lazy.

i took it as a joke in response to BG's comments about white liberals being the most racists people. Seems to me you're having a double standard here.

I have spent a bit more than two years of my life in the US, split between Houston and Vermont. I have met lots of liberals and conservatives and had many political discussions and race was pretty much never a topic of discussion. Based on this limited experience I am simply flabbergasted with the 'white liberal racist' blanket statement and, based on responses, that most people on this forum seem to be OK with it,

Edd · Jan 16, 2020

fbrissette said:
Based on this limited experience I am simply flabbergasted with the 'white liberal racist' blanket statement and, based on responses, that most people on this forum seem to be OK with it,

I wouldn’t draw that conclusion and I’m not ok with it. But diving into this already amped up thread about who’s the biggest racist has little appeal.

Orca · Jan 16, 2020

fbrissette said:
...I am simply flabbergasted with the 'white liberal racist' blanket statement...

Same for the "white conservative racist" crap. Better that we drop the racist accusations altogether.

bdfreetuna · Jan 16, 2020

Liberals: "Conservatives are racist and therefore promote racist policies"

Conservatives: "I don't think liberals mean to be racist but that sure sounds racist to me"

EPB · Jan 16, 2020

Edd said:
I wouldn’t draw that conclusion and I’m not ok with it. But diving into this already amped up thread about who’s the biggest racist has little appeal.

Well said, Edd. I don't think there's a stranger pissing contest than trying to argue or proclaim one is less racist than someone else they don't know on the internet (short of pointing out obvious malfeasance).

M. Brissette, the bar for calling people racist in the US has gotten embarrassingly low. I wouldn't take offense, it's in vogue for people to throw out the term like candy. Most of it is like the boy who cried wolf. There's obviously a lot more to the story, but best not to get into it. This is decidedly not the place for it.

KustyTheKlown · Jan 16, 2020

Snowing hard in Vermont today. Let’s agree to disagree and move on. I apologize for the klan jab, that was out of line hyperbole. Enjoy the snow, avoid the crowds.

bdfreetuna · Jan 16, 2020

KustyTheKlown said:
Snowing hard in Vermont today. Let’s agree to disagree and move on. I apologize for the klan jab, that was out of line hyperbole. Enjoy the snow, avoid the crowds.

:beer:

It's so bad you have to pay people to move to Vermont

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