Ski area bankruptcies

Not Sure · Mar 22, 2020

Money can be replaced people can't . Frankly there's a lot of overreaction on both sides. This whole mess started because an all powerful government wanted to save face by silencing anyone who would bring attention to the virus outbreak , look where that got them . This should have been contained in the beginning . A good lesson for those who want a government answer to everything .

In this situation on our part government and business must work together to get us out of this Fubar situation . Getting capital in the hands of small businesses capital and low income individuals money will go along way to return things the IRS has your address . Until then chill and spend family time .

icecoast1 · Mar 22, 2020

South Korea managed to contain their outbreak without shutting the whole country down and devolving into a state of lunacy and panic. We could have taken a much different route instead of the one we were on which will cause irreversible damage for years to come. Many businesses are just going to go out of business. The idea of just shutting things down for months, snapping your fingers and making it all come back is a fantasy

deadheadskier · Mar 22, 2020

VTKilarney said:
My thought exactly. Tell the vulnerable to hunker down, deliver them food and supplies, and let everyone get sick and then get better.

In theory I agree too, but I'm not 60 and quite frankly if I were, I'm not sure how I'd feel about being locked in my home purely because of age.

Also....

If we establish bug out criteria for when we lock the old folks up, what happens if (heaven forbid) another Polio type pandemic happens when children are most at risk? Guess you need criteria for that. And if both those criteria (read: laws) are established, well there is sure to be a really "Oh Sit!" law where we all have to quarantine.

This is a much more complex societal problem to plan for and fix than just saying, "Coronavirus? Bring it on! Sorry Grandpa, you have to take another staycation. Wink, wink."

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Rowsdower · Mar 22, 2020

icecoast1 said:
South Korea managed to contain their outbreak without shutting the whole country down and devolving into a state of lunacy and panic. We could have taken a much different route instead of the one we were on which will cause irreversible damage for years to come. Many businesses are just going to go out of business. The idea of just shutting things down for months, snapping your fingers and making it all come back is a fantasy

This isn't SK.

They *did* shut most of the country down too, they just did it much more orderly than here.

icecoast1 · Mar 22, 2020

Rowsdower said:
This isn't SK.

They *did* shut most of the country down too, they just did it much more orderly than here.

Not to the extent we are seeing in parts of the US.

icecoast1 · Mar 22, 2020

prsboogie said:
All well and good but it's not just 60+ year olds who are dying. We just had a 52 year old die yesterday in Massachusetts so ageism doesn't necessarily work in this case. Yes they are more vulnerable but there are a lot of factors to take into consideration.

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Most of the people under 60 that are dying from it have pre existing conditions. If you're not old and dont already have underlying health issues, the chances of dying from this are incredibly small

JimG. · Mar 22, 2020

BenedictGomez said:
I think if we just quarantined everyone over 60, we could have saved lives & saved the economy.

Hate to tell you but us 60+ old geezers also control most of the $$ in this country so that ain't happening.

And you know full well that healthy 60+ folks aren't really in any more danger than 40-50 year olds. Our problem in this country is an extraordinary percentage of people of all ages in poor health in many cases by choice.

Do I think the current path we are going down is an overreaction? Yes! But that's probably because I'm not worried about dying even if I get it. This is a political reaction to the fact that nobody can afford the political fallout from folks dropping dead in the streets. And that goes for both sides of the aisle. This is a calamity born from a perfect storm of poor choices on many fronts. A total clusterfuck!!

So hunker down and hope you come out whole when it's over.

BenedictGomez · Mar 22, 2020

deadheadskier said:
In theory I agree too, but I'm not 60 and quite frankly if I were, I'm not sure how I'd feel about being locked in my home purely because of age.

As opposed to "locking" everyone in America from infant to 104 years old a home? I've been out of the house 3 times in 11 days. The economic destruction being wrought is devastating. Literally tens-of-millions of new unemployment claims filed. How many will die from that? DOW futures are down almost 800 points as I type this as Schumer & Pelosi nixed the "bipartisan plan" to get more goodies. This is a financial bloodbath and those "over 60" are losing their retirement funds.

BenedictGomez · Mar 22, 2020

JimG. said:
And you know full well that healthy 60+ folks aren't really in any more danger than 40-50 year olds. Our problem in this country is an extraordinary percentage of people of all ages in poor health in many cases by choice.

This is not true. A healthy 40 year or healthy 50 year old is more likely to do better with COVID19 than a healthy 60+ year old, because immunological response deteriorates with age. This is KEY in this situation. You are right about comorbidities though, that is also key in the death rate with this virus.

EDIT: May as well share the South Korean data since I track it every day.

Fatality rates:
40-49: 0.08% (slightly less than common influenza's overall rate)
50-59: 0.41%
60-69: 1.58%

deadheadskier · Mar 23, 2020

BenedictGomez said:
As opposed to "locking" everyone in America from infant to 104 years old a home? I've been out of the house 3 times in 11 days. The economic destruction being wrought is devastating. Literally tens-of-millions of new unemployment claims filed. How many will die from that? DOW futures are down almost 800 points as I type this as Schumer & Pelosi nixed the "bipartisan plan" to get more goodies. This is a financial bloodbath and those "over 60" are losing their retirement funds.

Thanks

Most everybody with a functioning brain knows we are in for world of hurt and this economic pause needs to end as soon as possible.

It's really the second part of my post that is most important. If social distancing is the new normal when facing a pandemic, what are the standards (laws) going to be? When do we tell Grandpa to stay home? When do we hold our kids home. When is it so bad we have to go nuclear and have everyone stay home?

Our response to this has been basically flying by the seat of our pants.

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TyWebb · Mar 23, 2020

deadheadskier said:
Thanks

Most everybody with a functioning brain knows we are in for world of hurt and this economic pause needs to end as soon as possible.

It's really the second part of my post that is most important. If social distancing is the new normal when facing a pandemic, what are the standards (laws) going to be? When do we tell Grandpa to stay home? When do we hold our kids home. When is it so bad we have to go nuclear and have everyone stay home?

Our response to this has been basically flying by the seat of our pants.

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If we are to live in a free society do we really need laws to tell X or Y to stay home, especially over something that seems to have a pretty low death rate?

If we had an honest media and any govt we could trust even a lil, individuals could make these decisions on their own. This panic was caused and fueled by a media that is extremely dishonest and loves sensationalism, and politicians who love being central to a story. Without panic we’d be fine. Panic is herd behavior. It is definitely a result of a collective elite class brain fart that our children and grandchildren will still be paying for after we pass.

gregnye · Mar 23, 2020

BenedictGomez said:
This is a financial bloodbath and those "over 60" are losing their retirement funds.

Maybe those over 60 should just "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" like they keep telling younger people to do. Because that works so well, right?

Meanwhile there's a whole generation of young people that graduated college and struggled to enter the workforce in 2008 in the middle of recession, and now were just about ready to start their family, right during the beginning of a potential Great Depression 2.0

This virus really exposes the corruption of American society in general. Yes, young people may not die from COVID-10, but once they get medical treatment and see their hospital bill, they are going to want to Die.

The only good thing I see coming out out of this pandemic is that hopefully there is:

An overhaul of our health care system
An acknowledgement within the government that science is real, and that we can't just fire our pandemic response team and hope for the best.

As for skiing, it will always remain a rich man's sport. I highly expect the number of skiers next year to go down.

EPB · Mar 23, 2020

JimG. said:
Hate to tell you but us 60+ old geezers also control most of the $$ in this country so that ain't happening.

And you know full well that healthy 60+ folks aren't really in any more danger than 40-50 year olds. Our problem in this country is an extraordinary percentage of people of all ages in poor health in many cases by choice.

Do I think the current path we are going down is an overreaction? Yes! But that's probably because I'm not worried about dying even if I get it. This is a political reaction to the fact that nobody can afford the political fallout from folks dropping dead in the streets. And that goes for both sides of the aisle. This is a calamity born from a perfect storm of poor choices on many fronts. A total clusterfuck!!

So hunker down and hope you come out whole when it's over.

$$$ saved up over a lifetime wouldn't be of much use of you're older and get sick when the hospital system in your area is at/over capacity. Younger people will have priority.

If we lock everyone in working age away too long, you'd better hope your wealth is in cash. The economy cannot handle this for several months. A prolonged shutdown would be extremely hazardous to your wealth.

While the 60+ crowd might not like it, the reality seems to be they have extra invective to stay home.

I certainly don't have the magic solution, but getting healthy people back to work as soon as practicable is critically important if we want to recover from this reasonably well. If that means asking high risk people to stay home longer than low risk people, that night be the best solution for everyone.

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Cat in January · Mar 23, 2020

40% of those hospitalized in US are 20-54 and 12%of those in icu are 20-44. Sure old folks die more, but this affects all population age groups

NYDB · Mar 23, 2020

Cat in January said:
40% of those hospitalized in US are 20-54 and 12%of those in icu are 20-44. Sure old folks die more, but this affects all population age groups

how many of those folks had an underlying medical condition to begin with? I'd like to see the breakout on that. are these people battling cancer? Chronic conditions? Diabetes?

The stats make it seem like a lot of healthy young people are getting hospitalized. Is that really the case?

I really don't know, but it seems like important data

Edd · Mar 23, 2020

https://time.com/5805368/will-coronavirus-go-away-world-health-organization/

Interesting article with a WHO senior advisor.

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Jcb890 · Mar 23, 2020

BenedictGomez said:
As opposed to "locking" everyone in America from infant to 104 years old a home? I've been out of the house 3 times in 11 days. The economic destruction being wrought is devastating. Literally tens-of-millions of new unemployment claims filed. How many will die from that? DOW futures are down almost 800 points as I type this as Schumer & Pelosi nixed the "bipartisan plan" to get more goodies. This is a financial bloodbath and those "over 60" are losing their retirement funds.

To get more goodies? The bill as it was constructed would allow companies to be bailed out, yet still fire/lay employees off. It is/was basically a bill completely company-centric and not looking at people/workers at all. Also, Trump's hotels and properties will be allowed to be bailed out, etc.
https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1241728461313581057?s=20

icecoast1 · Mar 23, 2020

Most businesses have no choice to shut down right now and lay people off. The point was to get them money to sustain things so when this craziness is over, they can re open and hire people back.

Jcb890 · Mar 23, 2020

icecoast1 said:
Most businesses have no choice to shut down right now and lay people off. The point was to get them money to sustain things so when this craziness is over, they can re open and hire people back.

Understood, that part sucks and is why a bailout is necessary and will happen. However, the idea/opposition is that there is no protection for workers included. So, a company can be bailed out (receive money) and then still turn around and fire/layoff employees. How is that OK? I'm not talking about companies who have had to shut down and lay people off.

NYDB · Mar 23, 2020

Jcb890 said:
Understood, that part sucks and is why a bailout is necessary and will happen. However, the idea/opposition is that there is no protection for workers included. So, a company can be bailed out (receive money) and then still turn around and fire/layoff employees. How is that OK? I'm not talking about companies who have had to shut down and lay people off.

The european models make much more sense. Direct loans to businesses to pay 75% of laid off workers wages. Loans then forgiven if used for that purpose

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