How about something different

cdskier said:

Yup...definitely easy to mix up. I have friends and family that have done the same thing with those 2 places.

I'm actually glad to hear someone else confirm that vibe too. I've seen numerous people online and in articles talk about how great the guy and experience there is, so was surprised to have a disappointing experience there (and I tried twice just in case the first time was a fluke). I really enjoy his wines so it was a shame.

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I think Shale Stone is doing a great thing by finding varieties of Red grapes that will produce bold reds in an area that is producing amazing whites. Its really something that hasn't widely been figured out up there. I'm sure if you roll in there as a wine snob, you probably get along with the guy great. I don't know...

I'll still grab a bottle or 2 when I'm up there next, but it won't be a nice tasting experience like you can have at a lot of other wineries.

jimmywilson69 said:

I think Shale Stone is doing a great thing by finding varieties of Red grapes that will produce bold reds in an area that is producing amazing whites. Its really something that hasn't widely been figured out up there. I'm sure if you roll in there as a wine snob, you probably get along with the guy great. I don't know...

I'll still grab a bottle or 2 when I'm up there next, but it won't be a nice tasting experience like you can have at a lot of other wineries.

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I'm not so sure even a wine snob will get along great with the guy. I'm not going to say I'm a wine snob, but I do I like to talk to the wine-makers and staff about details about the wines themselves while tasting. Yet Rob from Shalestone had little interest in that last time I was there. He was more interested in talking about why he hates cell phones. Tried talking about older Finger Lakes wines and aging them and his response was that he personally only has bottles at home that he's going to drink soon. A wine-maker that doesn't even have a library of their own wine seemed rather bizarre.

At some point I may give him another shot, but for now I'll prioritize the dozens of other wineries that I enjoy going to up there (once they all re-open of course).

I am curious as to how good the wine is in upstate NY? Without trying to be a total wine snob, I mean, they do not have a very good climate for growing grapes . Way too much cold and way too much rain. I think most of you who drink wine know pretty much what is the requisite for growing wine grapes. Rain in the spring and then warm very dry conditions from the time the fruit emerges to Harvest. Rain dilutes the intensity and cold shortens and even ruins the crop. I have tried many wines from New England and none of them measure up to my taste standard.

jimmywilson69 said:

I think Shale Stone is doing a great thing by finding varieties of Red grapes that will produce bold reds in an area that is producing amazing whites. Its really something that hasn't widely been figured out up there.

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A few years back I stopped by McGregor Vineyards on Keuka Lake- the owner suggested I try the merlot. Thinking a Finger Lakes red couldn't be all that good, and not being a fan of merlot anyway, I skeptically tried it. Well I was shocked- it was vibrant and delicious- what a good merlot is supposed to be like, not the bulk shlock one sees nowadays.
Took some home with me.

Hawk said:

I am curious as to how good the wine is in upstate NY? Without trying to be a total wine snob, I mean, they do not have a very good climate for growing grapes . Way too much cold and way too much rain. I think most of you who drink wine know pretty much what is the requisite for growing wine grapes. Rain in the spring and then warm very dry conditions from the time the fruit emerges to Harvest. Rain dilutes the intensity and cold shortens and even ruins the crop. I have tried many wines from New England and none of them measure up to my taste standard.

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Fair warning - I'm somewhat obsessed with the Finger Lakes so I'm going to write a novel here...

The wine in upstate NY is actually very impressive (if you visit the right wineries and focus on what the area excels at). A number of wines have been receiving scores in the 90s lately from some of the major reviewers out there (Wine Spectator, Robert Parker, James Suckling, Vinous, etc). It is however a cool climate area (not unlike some popular areas of wine-making in Germany) so don't go in expecting big bold California cabs.

Rain is a big variable, but not something they always receive a lot of. On average they probably receive less than you think. 2016 was a drought vintage. 2017 had rain early in spring and continued through mid-summer. Many wineries were worried, but then it dried up from mid-July and stayed summery (and dry) all the way through harvest in October which led to a great crop. 2018 was a challenging year to be sure (most wine-makers in the region say it was the most difficult vintage ever). It was looking like a drought vintage again until mid-summer it suddenly started to rain a lot. The best wineries managed the vineyards carefully to avoid rot and did a lot of hand picking and hand sorting during harvest. Yields overall were down, but the wineries that were careful about what fruit they used did produce some great wines. 2019 was more back to "normal" with a more average amount of rain resulting in what is reported to be a quite good crop of grapes.

What does the Finger Lakes excel at? Aromatic whites are certainly their strong point. Riesling in general is the most popular wine by far. The climate of the Finger Lakes is very well suited to Riesling. They make everything from bone-dry Rieslings up to dessert wine styles (late harvest, ice wine, etc). Gewurztraminer is another grape that excels, although I just don't drink much of it so only buy a couple bottles here and there. Chardonnay is more hit or miss. Some make nice ones, some are meh.

Reds have more variability, but the best wineries are learning the secrets of which vineyards have the right micro-climates to properly ripen the grapes. In terms of reds Cabernet Franc is their strong point. A lot of people aren't used to experiencing this as a standalone grape since it is usually blended into a Bordeaux or a Meritage or a Super Tuscan. However when it is made right, it is really enjoyable.
Pinot Noir has been impressive from some wineries as well. I've had some Pinots that I could easily see being mistaken for a village level Burgundy and even a handful that you could compare to a few 1er Cru Burgundies. Then I've also had other Pinots that were terrible.

I've been going to the Finger Lakes for about 10 years now and have visited a total of over 60 wineries there. I've learned a lot in that time and seen an impressive growth in overall quality during that time as well. Yes, there are still some wineries that focus on making cheap fruity sweet wine. I avoid those. There are an increasing number though that are really trying to focus on "dry European style" wines and on helping improve the reputation of the region. You even have Louis Barruol from Chateau de St Cosme as a partner in one of the wineries in the Finger Lakes. If someone that has produced some of the top wines in the Rhone sees enough potential in the Finger Lakes to personally start making wine there, I think that speaks volumes.

I could probably go on, but in conclusion I would just say that they do make some very good wines (no comparison to anything I've ever had from New England). Plus it is such a beautiful area to visit and very convenient. When I first started going there I wasn't expecting much. Now that region represents a significant portion of what I drink.

Hawk said:

I am curious as to how good the wine is in upstate NY?

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If Long Island considered upstate, then yes, there are some very good wines. Out of curiosity I bought a bottle of One Woman Vineyard Gewurztraminer at a liquor store in Grand Central Station of all places & it turned out to be one of the best I've ever had. I hear they make an excellent Gruner too. Unfortunately, their only outlets are that store and the vineyard.

https://www.edibleeastend.com/2016/10/12/one-woman-wines/

legalskier said:

If Long Island considered upstate, then yes, there are some very good wines. Out of curiosity I bought a bottle of One Woman Vineyard Gewurztraminer at a liquor store in Grand Central Station of all places & it turned out to be one of the best I've ever had. I hear they make an excellent Gruner too. Unfortunately, their only outlets are that store and the vineyard.

https://www.edibleeastend.com/2016/10/12/one-woman-wines/

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How could LI be considered upstate? It's as down as you can get.

Good article on the Finger Lakes:
https://vinous.com/articles/finger-lakes-with-a-flourish-dec-2019

skiur said:

How could LI be considered upstate? It's as down as you can get.

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Which is why I started that post with the word "if." It depends how you look at it. Many see upstate as anything outside NYC.

skiur said:

How could LI be considered upstate? It's as down as you can get.

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Up I grew up there it next to NYC
Thechongly Brooklyn and queens are in long Island to
( I feel terrible f9r my friends still there and what is going on with lots of people went too summer homes last month
I Happy to be in much less dense population of Orange County NY

For reference of northern climate wines look for wines from the Okanagan Valley in BC. Spent some time there and the wines are excellent.

ScottySkis said:

Up I grew up there it next to NYC
Thechongly Brooklyn and queens are in long Island to
( I feel terrible f9r my friends still there and what is going on with lots of people went too summer homes last month
I Happy to be in much less dense population of Orange County NY

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I have lived on LI for over 40 years and have never heard it called upstate.

Siliconebobsquarepants said:

My Wife Accidentally solved the US toilet paper shortage mystery while ordering food on Amazon.....She thought this was a joke ...It's real
https://www.amazon.com/Poop-Like-Champion-Highest-servings/dp/B0186GEX8E#customerReviews

Review by Jan O or maybe Ohhhhhhhhh

"I'm on a low carb diet, and I thought this would be a great cereal to try. The order arrived Saturday. I'd just finished a 2 mile walk - and I'd had a lot of water to drink as suggested in other reviews. I tried a bowl (1/2 cup) with almond milk and a little fruit. It tasted ok - nothing spectacular. More water. More walking. Nothing. More water. More walking. Nothing. I decided that another 1/2 cup bowl might work, so I had another 1/2 cup bowl that night for dinner. More water. More walking. Nothing. And then the cramps started. I was up all night with stomach cramps and gas. I had many "false alarms" throughout the night. But nothing. Based on what was happening in my stomach, I was almost afraid to fall asleep, but I finally did around 4 a.m.
The cramps were gone the next morning. I had a "normal" low carb breakfast of coffee, bacon and eggs. Nothing. We went shopping - did a lot of walking - nothing. We needed to make a quick run to Walmart, and as soon as I stepped in the door it hit me. I had to go. Like right then. Luckily, the restrooms were by the front entrance. I'd like to take a moment to express my deepest condolences to anyone that was in the other stalls in the restroom. It wasn't pretty. And I couldn't stop going. I remember thinking, "So this is how I'm going to die. In a Walmart restroom." When I finally returned to the store, my husband looked concerned.

I had 2 less traumatic movements later in the day, but I stayed close to home. I was NOT going to risk another emergency. After another crazy bowel movement this morning, I'm beginning to wonder if I've done permanent damage to my digestive system.

Bottom line - it works - you just may need to wait for it. DON'T eat more than recommended. You'll regret it."

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:lol:

Holy cow that was quite the write up on the subject. I am going to make it out there sometime and will look those places up. I generally do not drink a lot of whites except in the summer and typically nothing that is on the sweeter side. I like reds. Pinots, cab, blends and lots of French or Italian. Especially Piedmont, Rhone Valley and Bordeaux. I also have a really good friend that quit the busy life and Moved to Healdsburg, CA. He has taken up and learned the wine business through working at vinyards and also studied to be a sommelier. He recently turned me on to the Dry Creek area Pinot's like Pappapietro-Perry and Holdredge. I have traveled through Napa-Sonoma extensively with my wife and him and have visited an obscene amount of vineyards through the years. It is sad that most places now charge you for tasting. That was never the case when I went.

legalskier said:

Many see upstate as anything outside NYC.

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I loathe those "many".

Hawk said:

Holy cow that was quite the write up on the subject. I am going to make it out there sometime and will look those places up. I generally do not drink a lot of whites except in the summer and typically nothing that is on the sweeter side. I like reds. Pinots, cab, blends and lots of French or Italian. Especially Piedmont, Rhone Valley and Bordeaux. I also have a really good friend that quit the busy life and Moved to Healdsburg, CA. He has taken up and learned the wine business through working at vinyards and also studied to be a sommelier. He recently turned me on to the Dry Creek area Pinot's like Pappapietro-Perry and Holdredge. I have traveled through Napa-Sonoma extensively with my wife and him and have visited an obscene amount of vineyards through the years. It is sad that most places now charge you for tasting. That was never the case when I went.

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Hah! I did warn that it would be long!

If you ever go and have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

For reds some of my top recommended places in the Finger Lakes that haven't already been mentioned would be:
Damiani - My only complaint here is they're starting to release some of their reds a little too young IMO...but I think this is a combination of increased demand along with lower yields in some recent vintages
Shaw - The owner here holds his reds back quite a while before releasing. "Current" releases include a 2010 "Bordeaux style" blend, 2011 Merlot, and 2013 Pinot
Ravines - Their Pinot routinely reminds me of Burgundy. Their blends are excellent too.
Hector Wine Company - One of the handful of places that makes a Syrah
Heart & Hands - Pinots are routinely excellent (they focused only on Pinot and Riesling up until 2 years ago when they added Chardonnay as well)

Tasting fees for the most part are pretty reasonable (usually in the $5-10 range). Even here though this has crept up over the years. It still varies quite a bit. Some places will refund the fee entirely or partially with a certain purchase which I think is the right way to do it.

And for a few photos:





And there's a ton of fun hikes through gorges and numerous waterfalls in the area around the Finger Lakes as well:

cdskier said:

Hah! I did warn that it would be long!

If you ever go and have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

For reds some of my top recommended places in the Finger Lakes that haven't already been mentioned would be:
Damiani - My only complaint here is they're starting to release some of their reds a little too young IMO...but I think this is a combination of increased demand along with lower yields in some recent vintages
Shaw - The owner here holds his reds back quite a while before releasing. "Current" releases include a 2010 "Bordeaux style" blend, 2011 Merlot, and 2013 Pinot
Ravines - Their Pinot routinely reminds me of Burgundy. Their blends are excellent too.
Hector Wine Company - One of the handful of places that makes a Syrah
Heart & Hands - Pinots are routinely excellent (they focused only on Pinot and Riesling up until 2 years ago when they added Chardonnay as well)

Tasting fees for the most part are pretty reasonable (usually in the $5-10 range). Even here though this has crept up over the years. It still varies quite a bit. Some places will refund the fee entirely or partially with a certain purchase which I think is the right way to do it.

And for a few photos:
View attachment 26764
View attachment 26765
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And there's a ton of fun hikes through gorges and numerous waterfalls in the area around the Finger Lakes as well:
View attachment 26768

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Ha, I lost 70lbs hiking the Ithaca gorges, mostly Robert Treman, sadly I've found most of it. Beautiful area.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using AlpineZone mobile app

the finger lakes region is really a cool place to visit. In my opinion there is plenty to do without the wineries but they are nice bonus.

Damiani - I like their wine as well. We also had a really nice experience there during our last trip with all of our friends. The let us hang in their downstairs room, and eat our own snacks (since it was April and not very nice out we couldn't picnic)with the only request that each couple buy a bottle to drink onsite. We happily obliged and then the owner came down to hang out with us and brought a few more down to share.

the Distillery next door is doing a great job with their spirits. Their whiskey/bourbon is starting to age nicely and I'm a big fan of both gins they make.

Cornhead said:

Ha, I lost 70lbs hiking the Ithaca gorges, mostly Robert Treman, sadly I've found most of it. Beautiful area.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using AlpineZone mobile app

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Beatful area for sure
It was fun hiking their with u cornhead and comany that joined us few years ago
Need to back when virus is gone

View attachment 26768[/QUOTE]

Watkins glen ? I took a trip several years ago felt like stepping into Rivendell from lord of the rings .
A mile and a half of waterfalls
https://parks.ny.gov/parks/attachments/WatkinsGlenTrailMap.pdf